Can TB3 be the only connection to the Mac?

[its2loud]

So as long as I build my cue in Dadman, I'll be monitoring at near zero latency when tracking as I'll be monitoring at the hardware level and not the software output level?

Yes

Can you also clarify that the buffer size would not affect the latency of say, a vocal, since the cue mix will be in Dadman in the hardware and not monitored in Pro Tools?

Only in the case where you want to send any insert processing or effects returns from Pro Tools to the Cue send.

It’s unclear if you’re an HDX or HDNative user or neither. Depending on this will determine what tracking modes and mixing modes you need to switch.

[shawnhonsberger]

Thank you, all. This is all super helpful!

Thanks its2loud. Yes, I'm using neither HDX nor HD Native. At this point until I receive the TB3 card for my MTRX Studio, I'm using technically nothing and it's very frustrating. I am currently using DVS which while impressive it is hardly useful as a driver for mixing, let alone tracking. I can't wait to have a real connection to the computer and a real playback engine that is reliable for both tracking and mixing.

[originalscottyg]

Apologies if I have missed somebody else mentioning this, but I didn't see it elsewhere in the thread.

There is something else to be mentioned here regarding AD/DA latency compensation, specifically in regards to using hardware inserts, which may not be what the OP was asking about.

For the previous Avid interfaces (192, HD I/O, & Omni, but not sure about Carbon), Pro Tools would automatically compensate for round-trip converter latency when using hardware inserts. It was not necessary to manually enter offsets into those fields in the IO Setup window HW Insert Delay page. Some other 3rd party Digilink converters, Apogee Symphony I know for sure, and some others as well, I believe) have the same functionality by emulating delay of the Avid interfaces and convincing the software that they were in fact those interfaces.

With the MTRX family, there is no automatic compensation of round-trip converter latency and those values need to be entered manually in IO Setup and are different for each sample rate. Even though the MTRX family are Avid-branded interfaces, there is no way for Pro Tools to know which path the signal is taking once it hits the MTRX (AD/DA? Dante? ADAT? AES? etc.).

Again, this only applies to hardware inserts.

[its2loud]

Thanks for this info but let’s not confuse this thread. OP was originally asking about ADC and not about hardware inserts.

Hardware insert latencies are a whole different issue not applicable to this thread.

[originalscottyg]

Fair enough. Apologies if I added any confusion.

I thought it might be pertinent information for the OP, since he seems to be learning the ins and outs of the MTRX family hardware and might want to use hardware inserts in the future.

More info on MTRX hardware inserts here:
https://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=413465

[Darryl Ramm]

And in addition to being off thread, HW insert latency with MTRX II and MTRX Studio Thunderbolt better be correctly compensated when ADC is enabled, it’s CoreAudio or ASIO and the DAD driver will publish all the standard latency data, presumably for the analog in and analog out paths. To not support this Pro Tools would need to deliberately cripple its standard behavior. I don’t want to distract this thread more. If folks don’t understand this HW insert delay compensation in DigiLink vs ASIO and CoreAudio I’ve posted explainers before, or pls start a new thread.

[shawnhonsberger]

With the MTRX Studio, MTRX, or any other third party low latency hardware device you are stuck with whatever built in hardware latency of that device. In the case of MTRX, MTRX Studio, and any other DAD made device, this is near zero latency. You will experience near zero latency when your cue sends are made within the DADMan monitoring profile. Not within Pro Tools.

This was really helpful. Now that I have my TB3 card installed, why is it that MTRX Studio only allows a 64 minimum buffer size in Pro Tools? I know that if I'm building my cue in Dadman and use "Low Latency Monitoring" in Pro Tools, I won't hear the latency induced by the hardware buffer size while tracking, but I was curious why the lowest is not something like 32.

The DAD/NTP site says that the TB3 card is 7/9 samples or 1.7ms with a 32 buffer size, so why is it that Pro Tools only allows 64? Is it adding an extra 32 for CoreAudio even with its own interface? If so, why?

What is the hardware latency for tracking with TB3 in MTRX Studio vs HDX? I don't want to track with plugins, but I would really like to know the numbers to know if it is worth it to upgrade to HDX for lower latency. Does anyone have this comparison?

I'm not anti-HDX by any means, I would just like to know it would be worth it for me.

Thank you.

[creativecontrol]

Greetings,

Within Pro Tools with a MTRX Studio TB3 Playback Engine at 96kHz - with a sample buffer of 64 you should be at ~ 2.5ms of round trip.

Within Pro Tools with a MTRX Studio with HDX Playback Engine at 96kHz - regardless of buffer (DSP mode) you should be ~ .9ms round trip.

With a 32 sample buffer in Logic with MTRX Studio TB3 - 96kHz - you should be at ~ 1.5ms round trip.

Hope this helps.

best,


Jeff

[shawnhonsberger]

Thanks, Jeff. This is helpful, and has got me thinking and considering HDX. Why is it that Pro Tools does not allow a 32 sample buffer?

I love Logic but I'm trying to transition fully into Pro Tools. Thanks, again!

[shawnhonsberger]

I ask because of the following on the NTP Site: https://ntp-us.com/dad/ax-center/

The DAD Thunder|Core Technology provides a Thunderbolt 3 connection with near-zero latency for interfacing between audio applications on macOS or Windows computers and the Thunder|Core audio hardware.
The interface provides a fast Thunderbolt 3/PCIe connection and data transfer with 2 samples latency on the connection and a total of 9 samples in the digital interface, as total also includes EQ and summing processing within the unit.
The channel capacity is up to 256 audio channels at 48 and 96 kHz, and the latency at 96kHz is 95 microseconds. The total round-trip latency with an audio software application will depend on the buffer size set for the application. With a buffer size of 32 samples, the latency is 670 microseconds at 96 kHz

With a buffer size of 32 samples, the latency is 670 microseconds at 96 kHz. That's .67ms on TB3 according to NTP.

That shouldn't be 2.5ms on Pro Tools, right? Even if I double .67ms, it should be 1.3ms with a 64 sample buffer in Pro Tools.