hdx aaxdsp is dying

[LDS]

Originally Posted by ejsongs

There are far fewer developers that support AAXdsp than TDM back in the day. Asside from Plugin Aliance very few are making anything new for aaxdsp. If you don't feed something, how long do you expect it to live?


Losing waves and softube were HUGE blows. Wave arts has dropped AAXDSP support. None of the new Sonnox, Soundtoys nor Flux stuff supports aaxdsp. At the time when I started this thread, I was begging Antares to bring back dsp support for autotune...which we eventually did get.


My aaxdsp is about half the size of what my tdm folder was . We are on life support at best...not even Avid has come out with anything new....


I love the platform and what it can do. I have a HUGE investment in this eco system. I want it to thrive

The vast majority of plugins over the last decade are just recycled, unimaginative junk if you ask me. Sure, they work... but they only exist to cash in on the impulse buying gotta-have-the-biggest-plugin-list-possible-because-I-think-it-will-make-me-better crowd.

The professional world works from templates, not excessive plugin lists. Moving to HDX and taking an axe to the fat has been one of the most beneficial things I have ever done. A small, clear and concise plugin list of tools I use has been so much more productive than a big, bloated plugin list of tools I never touch...

I mean, we can pretend the platform would be better because there is an AAX-DSP version of Waves Q10... but really... whose work actually suffers because it is missing? The new stuff that I find interesting, like the Softubes Weiss plugins has such large internal latency that make DSP versions a waste of money anyway.

Don't buy HDX because you want your plugin list to thrive. Buy it because you want your audio engineering to thrive. The two concepts are often mutually exclusive.

[ejsongs]

Originally Posted by LDS

The vast majority of plugins over the last decade are just recycled, unimaginative junk if you ask me. Sure, they work... but they only exist to cash in on the impulse buying gotta-have-the-biggest-plugin-list-possible-because-I-think-it-will-make-me-better crowd.

The professional world works from templates, not excessive plugin lists. Moving to HDX and taking an axe to the fat has been one of the most beneficial things I have ever done. A small, clear and concise plugin list of tools I use has been so much more productive than a big, bloated plugin list of tools I never touch...

I mean, we can pretend the platform would be better because there is an AAX-DSP version of Waves Q10... but really... whose work actually suffers because it is missing? The new stuff that I find interesting, like the Softubes Weiss plugins has such large internal latency that make DSP versions a waste of money anyway.

Don't buy HDX because you want your plugin list to thrive. Buy it because you want your audio engineering to thrive. The two concepts are often mutually exclusive.

Oh Come on dude...are you really going to lecture about professional practices here??? I dont know anyone who would invest in a hdx rig just as a hobby. Anyway, half of the journey is always searching for that last extra 10% to, make our job faster, better and easier...and yes Q10 can still hold its own even today. Perhaps because I do as much tracking as I do mixing, and often have to do an overdub during a mix, my need for dsp solutions is a bit greater than yours...

As a producer and studio owner, of course I want to invest in a platform that is fully supported by as many 3rd party developers as possible. Developers dropping support for our platform of choice should be of concern. Yes times change and tech changes so we should want our platform of choice to grow with the times and have a wide variety 3rd party developers and hopefully new ones that support it.

As much as I don't appreciate some of Avid's business practices nor like that PT is relatively expensive to upkeep comparatively to other daws, PT is still the best game in town and hdx/aaxdsp is one of the main reasons...otherwise as a business owner it would be irresponsible not to look at other more cost effective options.


EJ

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by ejsongs

There are far fewer developers that support AAXdsp than TDM back in the day. Asside from Plugin Aliance very few are making anything new for aaxdsp. If you don't feed something, how long do you expect it to live?


Losing waves and softube were HUGE blows. Wave arts has dropped AAXDSP support. None of the new Sonnox, Soundtoys nor Flux stuff supports aaxdsp. At the time when I started this thread, I was begging Antares to bring back dsp support for autotune...which we eventually did get.


My aaxdsp is about half the size of what my tdm folder was . We are on life support at best...not even Avid has come out with anything new....


I love the platform and what it can do. I have a HUGE investment in this eco system. I want it to thrive

How many Non DSP plugins do you actually track with ?
You do realize that HDX is now hybrid Yes ? So you can track in DSP and then mix in Native with all the plugins you think you need so I don't see the problem .. Now obviously everybody is different in there work flow but the pros I know track with few if any plugins most use hardware for tracking and only bring in plugins for mixing ????????????

In any case a reduction the number vs TDM is not "dying" (false equivalency) and no the AAXDSP market does not have to keep expanding to not be dying. (That is just corporate business mentality , many businesses ,especially niche businesses, thrive while maintaining as opposed to constantly expanding )
Even though by all accounts the number of AAXDSP plugins is actually growing

[ejsongs]

Originally Posted by K Roche

How many Non DSP plugins do you actually track with ?
You do realize that HDX is now hybrid Yes ? So you can track in DSP and then mix in Native with all the plugins you think you need so I don't see the problem .. Now obviously everybody is different in there work flow but the pros I know track with few if any plugins most use hardware for tracking and only bring in plugins for mixing ????????????

In any case a reduction the number vs TDM is not "dying" (false equivalency) and no the AAXDSP market does not have to keep expanding to not be dying. (That is just corporate business mentality , many businesses ,especially niche businesses, thrive while maintaining as opposed to constantly expanding )
Even though by all accounts the number of AAXDSP plugins is actually growing

Where to begin...the hybrid engine still has some kinks to work out



1. the hybrid engine can be buggy. I've run into situations where after you have tracked in DSP mode the resulting audio is early...thus not usable. I dont trust it enough to do a tracking session where the capture really matter.


2. the hybrid engine is a great idea but when you have things on your stereo bus that are not dsp, it deactivates all of the native plugins on your 2 buss which can drastically change your mix...that is one of the beauties of dsp...you can track while having plugins on your stereo bus.


3. with hybrid mode OFF you can track with a mixture of dsp and native plugins at the same time while retaining sample accuracy. Initially, the hybrid engine would not allow you to track with dsp and native at the same time...it was one or the other. Barry Rudolph helped me figure out a hack but it wasn't sample accurate. There has been an improvement where you go into dsp mode and then deactivate it which will allow you to track with a mixture.


4. Literally all of the new reverb, modulation and delay plugins are native only. So you have to track with a mix of dsp and native...especially when you are doing original sound design with live instruments. Experienced session musicians play to the sound. dsp plugins allow you to sculpt the sound without perceivable latency. The sound affects the performance, as does latency. There are very few aax dsp plugins in these categories. we mainly have just eq's and comps.


5. There are far less aaxdsp reverb, modulation and delay plugins then there were in TDM. We lost 4 of the best, waves, soundtoys, eventide, altiverb. You are right though...how many equ's and comps do you really need??? reverb, modulation and delay plugins are a different story. So the gains that we have in the number of available aaxdsp plugins does not out weigh the number of what was lost.



6. I have hardware, and I'm a pro too:)



ej

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by ejsongs

Where to begin...the hybrid engine still has some kinks to work out



1. the hybrid engine can be buggy. I've run into situations where after you have tracked in DSP mode the resulting audio is early...thus not usable. I dont trust it enough to do a tracking session where the capture really matter.


2. the hybrid engine is a great idea but when you have things on your stereo bus that are not dsp, it deactivates all of the native plugins on your 2 buss which can drastically change your mix...that is one of the beauties of dsp...you can track while having plugins on your stereo bus.


3. with hybrid mode OFF you can track with a mixture of dsp and native plugins at the same time while retaining sample accuracy. Initially, the hybrid engine would not allow you to track with dsp and native at the same time...it was one or the other. Barry Rudolph helped me figure out a hack but it wasn't sample accurate. There has been an improvement where you go into dsp mode and then deactivate it which will allow you to track with a mixture.


4. Literally all of the new reverb, modulation and delay plugins are native only. So you have to track with a mix of dsp and native...especially when you are doing original sound design with live instruments. Experienced session musicians play to the sound. dsp plugins allow you to sculpt the sound without perceivable latency. The sound affects the performance, as does latency. There are very few aax dsp plugins in these categories. we mainly have just eq's and comps.


5. There are far less aaxdsp reverb, modulation and delay plugins then there were in TDM. We lost 4 of the best, waves, soundtoys, eventide, altiverb. You are right though...how many equ's and comps do you really need??? reverb, modulation and delay plugins are a different story. So the gains that we have in the number of available aaxdsp plugins does not out weigh the number of what was lost.



6. I have hardware, and I'm a pro too:)



ej

Humm where to begin
#1 First hybrid has been stable and accurate for me .

#2 add infinitum --- the workflow for Hybrid is obvious you do not need to restate it --- yes native only plugins on DSP enabled tracks will be bypassed (which is not only obvious but is one of the main features of the hybrid engine ) and was announced from the get go,,, and why HDX hybrid allows you to switch the hybrid engine back to HDX Classic mode.
Because regardless of how your specific workflow may be problematic for you personally and regardless the number of plugins that are not and will not be ported to dsp,

NONE of that matters BECAUSE

You are still missing the actual point of my posts,,, which is the title and your reasoning was and still is,,, based on a False Causation fallacy because None of the above #2 thru #6 MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE or MATTERS --- the answer is still the same, NO -Hdx aaxdsp is not dying. This has now become circular you just keep repeating the same false causes of imagined death throw's with different wording.....

[ejsongs]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Humm where to begin First hybrid has been stable and accurate for me.

You are still missing the actual point of my posts which is the title and your reasoning was and still is based on a False Causation fallacy
Because regardless of how your specific workflow may be problematic for you personally and regardless the number of plugins that are not and will not be ported to DSP, the answer is still the same,,,,,, NO -Hdx aaxdsp is not dying

Keep in mind that this thread was started BEFORE Carbon, BEFORE Antares Auto Tune Hybrid. If it were not for Plugin Alliance (1 Developer) there would be little to no life in the platform. Most developers have abandoned it. Outside of the Plugin Alliance stuff most of the available Aax Dsp Plugins are at least 10 years old. In the software world that is ancient.



its pretty simple, if better sounding tools keep getting released that are cheaper and more efficient there will be no reason to use Aax dsp and it will die. No platform can long survive without new life and innovation. Carbon and Plugin Alliance gave the platform a life line. Avid and us must push for expanded development. I'd like to think that my years of complaining helped get us At Hybrid....Crap, even Massey doesnt develop for AAXdsp, DMG only did 1 plugin.



I truly fail to see how you are missing the point here and how bleak things really are. If Dirk stopped or got pissed off, then what???



Ej

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by ejsongs

Keep in mind that this thread was started BEFORE Carbon, BEFORE Antares Auto Tune Hybrid. If it were not for Plugin Alliance (1 Developer) there would be little to no life in the platform. Most developers have abandoned it. Outside of the Plugin Alliance stuff most of the available Aax Dsp Plugins are at least 10 years old. In the software world that is ancient.



its pretty simple, if better sounding tools keep getting released that are cheaper and more efficient there will be no reason to use Aax dsp and it will die. No platform can long survive without new life and innovation. Carbon and Plugin Alliance gave the platform a life line. Avid and us must push for expanded development. I'd like to think that my years of complaining helped get us At Hybrid....Crap, even Massey doesnt develop for AAXdsp, DMG only did 1 plugin.



I truly fail to see how you are missing the point here and how bleak things really are. If Dirk stopped or got pissed off, then what???



Ej

As Joni said "Round and round and round in the circle game" ................................

Ok you win,,, yes it is definitely in its final death throws and there is no hope for anyone to possibly continue making music in HDX .... No doubt by years end abandoned HDX systems will flood the used market and Presonus will not be able to produce enough Quantums to meet the demands of all the pro studios making the switch ,,, happy now ?
And I guess the DUC is quacking its last But given you made your prediction in 2018 I'll pass on holding my breath, thanks

Interesting --does Avid know how integral you were to the development of Hybrid and Carbon ?? (my personal thanks As my Carbon is just perfect for me )

BUT I am curious does it physically hurt to view your world as your glass is 3/4 empty ?

[TOM@METRO]

It's difficult for me to understand why anyone wouldn't be happy with the number of DSP plug-ins available. Within a hybrid system, it's only the tracks that are set for low latency recording that require DSP plug-ins. On playback or mixdown we have the choice of native or DSP plug-ins.

[creativecontrol]

Here's the latest compiled grid for reference:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9t0j2...ko1q3hbdwlufnv

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f1j2g004qj...4_DSP.csv?dl=0


best,


Jeff

[ejsongs]

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

It's difficult for me to understand why anyone wouldn't be happy with the number of DSP plug-ins available. Within a hybrid system, it's only the tracks that are set for low latency recording that require DSP plug-ins. On playback or mixdown we have the choice of native or DSP plug-ins.

See my explanation above. There I describe the limitations of hybrid. There are tons of eq and compression options thanks to plugin alliance. When it comes to reverbs for example there are about 3-5 options that matter...all of which are 10-15 years old.



D verb
revibe
revolver
Sonnox
reverb one

We lost altiverb, all the waves verbs, eventide, tc verbs...now think of all the high quality native options liquidsonics, rxlab, Valhallah etc...none of which can easily be used while tracking in dsp hybrid mode. i'm sure the next question is why would you track through a reverb? When sound designing and tracking with live instruments it can be very important because you perform to the sound. Also singers typically like to track through autotune and hear delay and reverb as well…granted dverb is usually good enough for tracking for many. The disconnect is that many here are only thinking in terms of being a mixer or post...not actually creating in pt.


Probably at this point i own 96% aaxdsp plugins in existence so I am quite aware of what is out there and their shortcomings:). Yes I would like to have more than 5 dsp reverb options...wouldnt you?



Same story with modulation and delays...how many strictly preamp options are there? Very few



hope this makes sense to you now...


ej