I HAD ENOUGH-yet again a ADC thing

[TOM@METRO]

Originally Posted by guitardom

i have to say i very much doubt they have been working on it that long. i suspect that they started somwhere during or after the rewrite of the dae for the 7.4 release and that was the first step in the process.

You are likely spot-on about this, however the concept of ADC and the need for it has been around a tad longer than that. Perhaps there is a sense of urgency regarding this; I just haven’t felt the love.

I'm not tryin to bash. I go all the way back to Sound Tools. I've made a ton of money with stuff. Im just sayin'

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

You are likely spot-on about this, however the concept of ADC and the need for it has been around a tad longer than that. Perhaps there is a sense of urgency regarding this; I just haven’t felt the love.

I'm not tryin to bash. I go all the way back to Sound Tools. I've made a ton of money with stuff. Im just sayin'

I agree as well, but i just think they lost touch with their le customer base somewhere along the way. to be more honest i just dont they really cared what we wanted!! they are now realizing we have the potential to make them the most money if they can give us a product we feel is worthy to spend our cash on. also the fact hd is dated and obviously on its last leg!!

[Chad Pippin]

I just picked up my first Pro Tools product (MBox mini with LE 8) and was SHOCKED when I inserted my first UAD plug in and realized that it didn't have ADC. I did not get the software to mix in, but instead to set up session files and transfer between the studio and home so it isn't a deal breaker for me in that regard. I work mainly in Digital Performer. I have also used Nuendo, Cubase and Logic for years.

Lack of ADC is the single issue that will keep me from ever using Pro Tools LE for major projects. Maybe I just never learned how to deal with the lack of compensation or I was spoiled by other programs that have it, but it really seems like PT is very behind the competition in this regard.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by guitardom

...and to the local WILD MAN! i dont think we are all "conditioned" to deal with this...

After ten years of "workarounds", they become habit and second nature, hence, brainwashed and acceptance. Then we start posting to the newbies in a calm serenity how it's really "no big deal" not having ADC and you only need to do "this" and do "that". I am very guilty of this myself. Free yourself from this guitardom!! Rant I say!!

10 years...still waiting...for ADC...

Shane

[Shan]

Originally Posted by Chad Pippin

I just picked up my first Pro Tools product (MBox mini with LE 8) and was SHOCKED when I inserted my first UAD plug in and realized that it didn't have ADC. I did not get the software to mix in, but instead to set up session files and transfer between the studio and home so it isn't a deal breaker for me in that regard. I work mainly in Digital Performer. I have also used Nuendo, Cubase and Logic for years.

This is a perfect example. Since ADC is the norm with every DAW out there, it's easy for a new user to assume this is also the case with PT LE. It's not even promoted or mentioned that LE doesn't have ADC without some deep searching. Most individuals don't realize this until they fire it up after spending some hard earned money. I'm sure alot of decisions to purchase PT LE would have been made different if the consumer new in advance.

I'm reminded of the time when I purchased my 001 back in the day. I opened the box and there was even a 3.5 Floppy that said "Dverb" on it. While all the other DAWs at that time included a free reverb plug-in, I quickly realized I had to cough up $500 for "Dverb". It's the fine print infomercial marketing that creates the user vs company and there is no need for it in these modern times.

I've offered my fanboyism, support and patient wait for 10 years...we're past the ridiculous point, give us our ADC.

Shane

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by Shan

After ten years of 'workarounds", they become habit and second nature, hence, brainwashed and acceptance. Then we start posting to the newbies in a calm serenity how it's really "no big deal" not having ADC. I am very guilty of this myself. Free yourself from this guitardom!! Rant I say!!

10 years...still waiting...for ADC...

Shane

your scaring me shan..........no i wont drink the red kool aid and wear black nikes

i understand though and not making excuses either way. but at least they are acknowledging this now and doing something about it. i figure gary should have ata working darn well here soon and i would rather digi get it right rather than rush through it and have a disaster like they have now with 8. at least we hope they get it right

[Shan]

Originally Posted by guitardom

your scaring me shan..........no i wont drink the red kool aid and wear black nikes

The red pill or the blue pill?

...at least they are acknowledging this now and doing something about it.

True, but the question is, do we get it in year 10...or year 11?

i figure gary should have ata working darn well here soon

Ya, I'm pretty impressed with his recent development. Looks like the next release will be a winner.

Shane

[markatz]

The bottom line is that I love PT otherwise i wouldn't be here
but i find it embarrassing for digidesign and me as a user that i have to
deal with this issues,i am sure that if they would want to make ADC then there would already be ADC,it's really the small things such as the MP3 thing,there are things that in 2009 should be obvious and shouldn't be an extra thing that require more money and i really hope DIGI are doing something about it because i know a lot of people who left PT for these little things,I just don't get it,DIGI are trying to compete with Logic and Cubase and so on but they fall on these little things,Where Is The Logic???
It's a shame...

[froyo]

Hello. Well some of the people that have been around here a long time will know what I am going to say. And I really do mean it with all respect to all involved. It comes down to what may be seen as nitpicking semantics but in this case it is a crucial element. Pro Tools LE is the Limited Edition (Light Edition if you ask some people). What people have wanted from the LE line from day one 10 years ago was for it to be the full version of Pro Tools for native systems. It simply is not that. It never will be that.

Now it's possible Digidesign may at some point have a product that is just the full version of the software for native systems. The minute that happens it is no longer the Limited Edition of the software. Think about it. There have to be limits to the Limited Edition otherwise it's not Limited is it?

Pro Tools Limited Edition. Limited. Limited. Limited. Limited. Say that a few hundred times more in your head so that may be it sinks in that Pro Tools LE will NEVER be a full version of Pro Tools. That's a different product altogether, just not LE. Pro Tools Native or whatever you want to call it but do be aware that it's a completely different product from the Limited Edition.

And with that in mind then we come to the topic about LE that also has been going on since day one 10 years ago. "If Digidesign doesn't change these limits they will be left behind because the competitors offer so much in comparison, etc. etc." That conversation has been going on since day one literally. And every year Digidesign just keeps growing and growing their market share.

The analogy I always give to people is that of a cheating girlfriend. Imagine that you live with a girlfriend or wife even. You take care of her, pay all her bills, take care of all her needs. She on the other hand very openly cheats on you with other people. You even introduce her as your cheating girlfriend. It's in her name, what else do you expect from her?

Now when she cheats you go on and lecture her about how what she is doing is wrong and that one of these days you are going to leave. But you never do. Days, weeks, months, years go by and the same thing happens every time. Now you have to ask yourself why would the cheating girlfriend have any incentive whatsoever to change her ways. She enjoys all the benefits of being your girlfriend and being taken care of by you and she suffers absolutely zero consequences for cheating on you. Why would she ever change?

So it is with the LE line. As long as LE keeps on being the top dog in the marketplace, what incentive does Digidesign have to change? Because it's very disingenuous to complain about limits on LE at the same time you hand over the check for the upgrade or new purchase. The same way it's disingenuous to expect the cheating girlfriend to change if you keep taking care of her. The solution in each case obviously is to leave. Only then can the cheating girlfriend and Digidesign suffer the consequences of what they do. Only if a significant portion or even a massive portion of LE users stopped using Pro Tools altogether and started going with others could Digidesign feel the impact.

That would mean not upgrading, not buying any new version or any new hardware. Completely dropping them. Only then will they be forced to change their policies towards LE, maybe do away with it altogether and offer the full native version. Until that time they will not be pressured into it. They may do it themselves, but not because they were forced or pressured into it.

Now it's true that there have been many, many things that have been gained and have been added to LE over the years and it's probably true that some of them were influenced by postings on the DUC, to what extent it's almost impossible to know. However this is very far from taking the limits away from LE. There will always be limits on the Limited Edition of the software otherwise it's no longer the Limited Edition. The same way your cheating girlfriend can no longer be called that when she stops cheating.

Will things change any time soon? Will the changes in technology and the competition force Digidesign to offer a fully native version? Not any time soon in my opinion, if ever at all. 10 years of experience on the matter tend to support that argument. Now almost two years ago when Logic 8 came out there were some rumblings as to how that would be the beginning of the end for LE. How could Digidesign compete with such an affordable package that offered so much? The proof is in the pudding as they say. For every one person who may have left Pro Tools for Logic 8 there were probably 3 or 4 new customers ready to take his/her place. And maybe those new customers will get fed up with the limitations in LE 2 years down the road but when they defect there will be 3 or 4 new people ready to take each one of their places. And of course you also have to count the people who left and then came back to Pro Tools LE some time later. The bottom line for Digidesign is that their LE market keeps growing despite of competition and technology.

And so it is. I dare say that if most all LE owners were honest they would say that what they really want is an unlimited version of the software to use with whatever native system they can put together. I am trying to make them realize that this simply will never, never, ever happen for the LE line because after all it is the Limited Edition. And I think the solution for those people is basically one of two things:

-Drop Pro Tools LE altogether. Either by moving up to the TDM version or by moving to another software.

-Accept the fact that LE will always have limits and deal with the workarounds.

The one thing all LE users and all Digidesign customers for that matter can hope for and keep asking for is a full version of the software. That's a completely different monster, it's not LE, call it PT Native if you will. But do be aware that it's not LE and it never will be LE. By the way, back in the day before LE there WAS a full version of the software for native systems. Sort of. You still had to buy Digidesign hardware I/O, but after that all the processing was done by your computer. It was the AudioMedia III card. You bought it, got analog stereo in and out and S/PDIF and the Pro Tools software that came with it was exactly the same as if you bought a NuBus or TDM system. The exact same. No limits. No one ever described it as LE or the Limited Edition or the Light Edition of Pro Tools because it very simply was not and could never be that.

I really hope I don't come off as an old fuddy duddy lecturing. If I do I apologize to those who may view it that way. My intent really is out of concern the same way I would tell a friend to just drop that cheating girlfriend. I do really feel bad for all those people that get really frustrated by the limits in LE every day and I hope this helps them see the big picture better so they can make a better decision that helps them and cut down on the frustration. Good luck.

[phobia]

Well the world isn't really that black or white, more grey I think.

Cheers,
- J