Digital Performer with a 002R?

[Finchy]

Ok, so I plan on getting a PowerMac G5 with dual 2.0gHz CPUs and 4gb of ram for a home project studio. I will be running a 002R and PTLE 6.7. Somebody suggested to me to get Digital Performer 4.5 as a "front-end" for ProTools. I'm not understand how I would use it WITH the 002R...unless it would allow me to have more than 32 tracks and be using the 002R as the interface for DP. Is this how it works?

Also, anybody have any experience using Digital Performer with PTLE? Pros or cons to using it? I would like a lot of information if possible because all I can find is the features of DP4.5 and thats not helping me understand what the hell I would use it for. I know that it's a multi-track program like PT or Nuendo...but I'm not understanding how I could possibly use it WITH a 002.

[lwilliam]

Well, I've had my ups and downs with using DP and the 002R. The Digi Core Audio Manager is the application that allows you to use the 002R with supposedly any other core audio application such as Logic or DP. You would be able to use AU and MAS plugins and have 99 audio tracks, import REX files, Apple Loops, and ACID files if you use DP. You would also gain scoring. There are many people who use DP as a front end to Digi hardware (or just use other hardware) - but my guess is that it's the HD users and not the 002 users.

At first (weeks ago) I had trouble getting DP to recognize the 002R, then it started working, and worked for a couple of weeks. Then just today, I fired up DP and can't get it to recognize the 002R again, so I'm back to using the built-in audio with DP. Yes, I've repaired permissions.

Quite frankly, I think that Digi just doesn't have much incentive to make a good Core Audio Driver (why help the competition use their hardware), and this driver has been flakey since I got it. Personally, I'm tired of TRYING to make it work with DP. Some people have had success with it, but I don't know which of them is using it in a professional situation. I need reliability - and this sure isn't it.

If anyone has it working without the "The Audio Hardware did not Respond" message followed by the "Digital Performer cannot use the Core Audio Manager as it is currently configured because no outputs are available", please let me know the steps you took to GET it to work reliabily.

I find it curious that Jam/Toast can use the CAM just fine, but I've heard tons of problems with Logic Pro and with DP - Digi's main competition. GarageBand users have also reported numerous problems with the CAM (including myself).

Personally, I would recommend some other interface than the 002R for DP. I would recommend something that doesn't use Digi's Core Audio Manager - that's any interface not manufactured by Digi. Between the flakey 002 power harness (I keep wondering when it will happen) and the crappy Core Audio Driver, I was happier with my 001.

Sorry, I don't usually get on a rant like this, but just when I was going to put some serious time into learning DP, the CAM flakes out on me - AGAIN!

[Sergievsky]

Is the power harness what's causing your problems? Because that would obviously cause DP to stop recognizing the 002R. My 002R seems to have stabilized without replacing the power harness, and so far DP on my laptop (WITHOUT PTle) has had no problems with the 002R and Core Audio 6.7. But yeah, I too am wondering when the power harness would start flaking out again (knock on wood). Anyway, try a setting up a new account (better a new HD) without PTLE or anything else for that matter and see if that helps.

The only reason I can see on using the 002R as a front end to DP as opposed to cheaper (and lighter) alternatives like motu's Traveler is of course having the option to use PTLE, along with the compatibiliy with other PT users, which isn't a trivial thing.

[Scot Stafford]

Check this out:

You can have one digi 002R for $1,200, or you for the same amount, you can have:
One MOTU 828mkII
AND one Mbox

I have a 160 GB external FW 800 drive that has a minimum OS 10.3.4 install with PTLE 6.4 on it, with a full 10.3.8 install + DP + Logic + everything else on my internal drive. I just reboot from different drives whenever I need to switch between programs. Takes an extra 60 seconds or so each time, but it's worth it, IMHO. My system couldn't be happier.

Pro Tools and the Mbox (or 002) aren't really happy unless they have full control over a partition. Frankly, the 828mkII smokes the 002R (which I've used), so I don't miss the extra 2 XLR's, especially since I always use a separate preamp going into the line level inputs (and you should too!).

[Finchy]

You know...I've used MOTU interfaces before, and they have an 828mkII at the studio...and two things. 1) MOTU stuff has never really impressed me, I know, I'm retarded. Not saying it's not any good, it's just not for me I guess. And 2) The MKII at the studio is covered in dust because it literally hasn't been used. Ever. They hooked it up, made sure it worked. Then never used it again.

Again, not saying MOTU stuff isn't any good, but I think there is a reason why DigiDesign has reigned the digital recording world for 20 years now. From using it, and seeing it, everything put together, I know why. I don't have a problem using Digital Performer to get more than 32 tracks, which I will basically just have as insurance for that ONE time I *might* need more than 32 tracks. Other than that, I plan on using PTLE. I've really never had a problem with it, got great results with the MBox, and it's freaking USB. I use to be a huge Vegas fan before I ever heard of Pro Tools. I had two MAudio Delta 1010's running into Vegas 4.0 and 5.0 at one point and really thought it couldn't get any better. Then I started helping out at this studio, and eventually I was allowed to use the systems there. Then got to record some of my own stuff there. Then recorded a friend's band there. All using a PT HD|3 and HD|2 system. It got to where I completely forgot about Vegas, and before that, realized how much easier it was in PT to do anything compared to Vegas.

Basically, ProTools, LE or not, brings a professional touch to a studio in my opinion. Usually I'm really unimpressed with any studio, home or professional if they are running anything less than a 002. Call me crazy. Unless it's an analog only nazi studio. Which in that case they usually have an SSL console (drool) and using reel-to-reel. Also in which case they are lucky. I hope I haven't pissed anybody off with this reply. It's just that I'm tired of people that have had a bad experience or whatever trying to throw that in my face to make me think less of Digi or their products and possibly sway me into getting something I don't like. Even if thats not what you meant by your post, it seems like it. Sure, maybe your 002 messed up. That doesn't mean they ALL do. I've seen tons of problems posted about the MBox...yet I've never had a problem ONE with mine. None of the problems posted have ever pertained to my MBox or any experience that I have had with it. Also...big deal, the 002R costs $1,200....It's in my budget and it's what I want.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying MOTU stuff is not any good. I'm also not saying that DigiDesign stuff is better. I'm simply stating how I feel about these things. And now that I think about it...I don't recall asking about a way to save money on an interface....I only asked about the compatability between Digital Performer and the 002R. I would assume that if somebody had asked something like that, it would probably mean that they have settled on a 002R or already have one, and just have a question about another tool to go with it. In any case, let me at least get what I want, and if there is a problem, let me learn from it. I don't like being sheltered in any way....Blah, my rant is done. Ignore everything I said, I'm running on 3 hours of sleep for 4 days now. Good Times. Latah.

~Finchy

[wildstar]

Basically, ProTools, LE or not, brings a professional touch to a studio in my opinion. Usually I'm really unimpressed with any studio, home or professional if they are running anything less than a 002. Call me crazy.

you're crazy.



generally, i'm prety unimpressed with any studio if the only reason they're running PT is because everyone else is. but if PT works best for you, that's something else. with so many excellent and equally-capable platforms out there, there is no excuse for following the herd. it's a simple matter to move between PT and other DAW's as needed to accomadate other studios and clients.

to answer the original question: there is a Core Audio driver for the 002 that allows you to use it with any Core Audio-compatible application, including DP. PTLE is NOT a Core Audio compatible application - you can ONLY use it with Digi hardware. But just about any other DAW will work with just about any hardware device.

whether or not the Digi Core Audio Driver for the 002 works well is another story. i sometimes use my 002R with DP, and i've found it to be a little sensitive. like, if i sneeze in the studio it sometimes gets scared and drops its connection to DP. but it does work fine most of the time with DP, though you may be happier by going with a totally software-neutral interface, or a MOTU interface for DP.

the general feeling is that Digi doesn't put a whole lot of effort into making the Core Audio driver work well. and as others have said before me, why should they? the people who would buy a Digi interface just for the interface must only represent a tiny fraction of their customers. when you buy a Digi interface, you're buying Pro Tools software.

for me, i use PTLE and my 002R only when clients come by my studio and need to see Pro Tools. they get pretty nervous and jumpy if its anything else, which is what Finchy was getting at with his reply. but as soon as the clients head out the door, i re-open their project in DP and get back to doing the real work. don't confuse client ignorance and market dominance with what really matters: what works best for you in your studio.

my 2¢

[lwilliam]

There are differences, and honestly if I determined that I needed Digital Performer, I would not pick the 002R as my interface.
Rob

Exactly my point. PTLE 6.7 seems to work just fine with the 002R, but the DP/002R combo is not anything I'd recommend for a professional situation.

I'm considering finding an inexpensive interface (M-Audio Audiophile Solo?) just for DP.

I don't think it's a wiring harness problem, or PTLE would also have trouble recognizing it.

[Finchy]

Ok awesome. I've always preferred Cubase SX's MIDI over using ProTools. Even the HD system at the studio....just never could use it like I could use MIDI in Cubase. And I use Drumkit From Hell for drums for my little projects, so it's all MIDI. Also, when I get all of this stuff, I will be basically getting rid of my PC, and so I will need something that is cheaper than Cubase SX and does MIDI just as good. Because I will definitely not pay for it again just to have it on the Mac. So I guess Digital Performer is equal in comparison to Cubase SX for MIDI then? Or no? Thanks guys for the replies. Latah.

~Finchy

[Finchy]

Also, I did say that I would probably only have DP for the times when I would need more than 32 tracks. I highly doubt I will ever need them, so it's like insurance. And I would probably use it for MIDI as well. My bet would be that that would be the most action it sees is MIDI editing and sequencing. Latah.

~Finchy

[lwilliam]

I used to use Cubase VST (prior to SX) and it was a great midi sequencer (not so good with audio, IMHO). One concern I have about Cubase is that Steinberg keeps getting sold to various PC-oriented companies like (now) Yamaha and I'm not sure if the general bugginess of it has been overcome on the Mac platform. But if you're comfortable with it, then either give it a go on the Mac or switch to DP (a Mac-only software) for heavy-duty midi sequencing.

DP can import Apple Loops, ACID Wavs, and REX files directly and although PTLE 6.7 has come a long way in its midi features capabilities, I still don't think it's as advanced as DP. DP is also known to be one of the best sequencers for film and TV composers. It has features like "find tempo" between two hitpoints, a very advanced tempo change function, a visible SMPTE Time Line, easier handling of songs/sequences of 2 hours or so, etc.

PTLE still works for your basic song-oriented midi stuff and I still think it's quicker than DP for detailed audio editing, but it IS the "LE" version, whereas DP is fully-loaded with features. At the crossgrade price of $350 or less, it's a good buy.