stems

[manis]

I wrote about this on the other thread but decided in needed another name that represents the topic.

Iwent to th South Australia Film Corp yesterday and met a couple of very nice lads there who have done many popular films here, award winners.

we talked about levels, cuts, stems, but I was told that at the end of the day its your ears.

OK, I was shown how to create busses in the IO settings in PT. It looked easy but now I try I get a message saying, 'new path (what ever name i give it) is overlapping with busses 31 and 32.'

how do I add boxes in the IO busses tab to create outputs that do not overlap. I 'add path' then name it and give it a 'stereo or mono,' but I have forgotten what I do next.

they were bussing them to hardware faders, so I wonder if bussing within the protools environment calls for creating stems in this way.., being creating new busses in the OI settings and then sending all the tracks for .., whatever.., FX.., folley, dia.., what ever, into one Aux track to be cotroled as stems there.

ooorrr, is it better in my position (no hardware) to just group them within the PT environment to control them as groups. One of the boys said it was best to creating busses in the IO settings.'

wheew.., hope someone can get through all that and help

cheers all

[Richard Fairbanks]

I don't recall which Pro Tools system you have there. LE software prior to 7.0 only allows 32 internal busses. Recent LE allows up to 64, while HD now allows at least 128. You should be able to add up to the limit of your software. In IO setup, on the busses page, if you hit DEFAULT you can temporarily create a default setup that uses all available. Don't save it, though, unless you want to overwrite the setup you already have.

As to how to work, that is a big question. I assign tracks to internal busses, which are then combined to other busses to form a complete mix. Busses (or "stems", which is another way to say the same thing) in my sessions are often VO, dialog, B-roll, ambience, effects, music. These get routed and mixed together in various ways to other busses to form different "mix minus" outputs. This kind of routing is only possible with a large number of available busses. I do not very often ride the levels of the busses (stems), though, since I prefer to do most of the balancing and level rides in the individual tracks. The best time to change bus levels is to dip the entire effects or music under dialog. I prefer to keep the buss level at unity until the relative levels are nearly perfect. Sometimes we are required to provide two (or more) versions of a mix, one that has those level changes under dialog, and another one that does NOT have those changes. This is when busses faders come in really handy.

[Carl Kolchak]

You're getting the overlap message because you have tried to create two busses using the exact same path, a bit like trying to park two cars in one space.

If you look at the I/O matrix you will see that you have the slots for 31 + 32 occupied twice.

You need to decide, depending on how far in to bussing / mixing the session you are, whether you want to delete the existing paths (not to be taken lightly if you're well under way), rename the existing paths, or the most flexible way (though can create a lot of visual clutter) deactivate any unused paths and create new ones.

Here's an old thread that may give you a better idea.

A very (almost overly) simplified (i.e. not quite the ideal way of doing it) set up for the buss-restricted-dubbing-mixer-about-town would be to have all your dialog channels bussed to a path called "dialog" (or "DX" or whatever convention you like), all your effects channels bussed to a path called "effects" (or "FX" or whatever convention you like), all your music channels bussed to a path called "music" (or "MX" or whatever convention you like) etc, etc.

Create a stereo master fader for each buss and a stereo audio track to print each stem to.

Set the input of each of the new audio tracks to one of the busses and the output to your monitoring path, then record enable the track.

You can now balance the over all mix using the master faders (allowing you to tame any potential buss clipping) leaving you with the finished stems recorded to the audio tracks.

From this very simple starting point you should be able to see the possibilities for creating more complex mixing environments with more refined control over the various elements, just by using aux channels and additional busses to break it into more easily digestible chunks, and by premixing the dialog, effects, music etc in separate sessions before bringing them all together for the final mix.

Hope that helps you make some sense of it.

[manis]

I am truly stunned and uplifted by the generosity here. I dont know what to say except thsnks. I will read and re-read all this and 'I WILL be back.' but for now I'll run through this 'very simple' set up ?? and see how I go.., I understand the theory and will hop onto PT now.

really, wow, thank you to you both very much.

now for some 'get down and dirty' on PT 7.3.1

I Mac (intel 24 inch screen) dual processor hyperthread (?) ect

M:) over and out and see you on the return run

[manis]

OK, the version I have is LE 7.3.1.

mac Dual core UB, ect

In the IO matrix there are 32 channels already there, can I make more and if so how. THIS is the problem because I realize I could simply rename the busses from '31/32' to 'DIA', but I am sure the lad at SAFC added, I think with an 'add' sign, some extra busses rather than simply renaming them. In my case I am still wondering what the advantage is to creating extra busses if there are some there not being used anyway, may as well rename them??

been shopping and doing assignments so haven't got onto the mac (PT) yet.

the lad at the SAFC had used all bussses and deleted the ones he made to demonstrate 'bussing/stems.' On the main console room, they use HD, in the folley room.., LE. we were in the main console area.

M:)

just checked the 'old thread' link.., excellent!

[manis]

OK, when I go to the IO settings the matrix has the full 32 busses on display. I can (under busses tab) 'add new path' but the path only reaches to the end of the 32 bus matrix, it doesnt add the squares needed for the representation of L and R. Is this it? All I can do is rename busses from 1-32?

OK, another question.., example.., DIA.., 6 mono audio tracks of DIA (each actor or angle of mike or is this more sub mixing??)are bussed into what?? an Auxillary track?? why an axillary track and not simply an audio track? I except the answer 'just do it' if it is too long an explanation. these aux tracks are named accordingly.

from there it/they are/is mixed with the other sub mixes, stems, bussing.., same thing.., no? to the main stereo out and also bussed to separate master faders to be recorded as stems, separate elements of the sound design, possible for archiving or whatever.

effects are bussed as in the same way, as folley, atmos, ect, separately, to the same master fader, or/and there own master faders to be printed and archived.

prints (recorded tracks from each element) used from the aux tracks are used in the final mix, actual recordings of the final mix of each stem to the final product?

hope this makes sense!

is this so?

M:)

[C]

The busses 1-32 are there by default when you start PT.

In LE it is possible to have either Mono or Stereo busses.

If you select all the existing ones then hit delete, you'll be in a better place to start from.

Hit add new path.

Next to where it says Bus 1 select Stereo from the menu. It should present you with a L R against bus outputs 1 and 2 respectively.

Select Bus 1 and hit the New Sub-Path button twice.

This will create 2 mono bus paths, click in the box for number 1 and an M will appear, same for box 2.

Rename this bus accordingly.

This process is the same for LE and HD except with HD there are more options for bus types (up to 7.1) and consequently more possible options for the sub-paths to.

If you create a 7.1 bus in PT HD you'll be able to create the following sub-paths: Mono, Stereo, LCR, Quad, LCRS, 5.0, 5.1, 7.0

Have fun

[spoons]

As a newbie, i'm trying to decide my bussing for making stems.

I know that a lot of engineers do go the route suggested ie. track to bus (dail.fx etc) then combine these via another bus to make a final mix.

Where does your dynamics come in this chain? I guessing you have to have some on the stem busses and then a some on the master bus to catch the peaks.

It is my understanding that stems should combine to produce an exact copy of the final mix, it seems to me that the above won't produce this.

I was thinking that I would parallel off from my tracks too their respective stem bus and to the final mix bus and also a mix minus bus. This would mean that the path they travel is the same for each mix and so the latency is the same for each. Any level changes I need to do to stems could be done with a VCA on each group ie. dail. or fx. Does this sound sensible.

spoons