Layering Tracks?

[1racerx]

Ok, so I'm pretty much a noob on engineering. I was wondering how many tracks I should use for layering, for each instrument to get that big production sound that you might hear on say a Metallica album or the like? I have 5 guitar tracks now, that give me a huge sound. How many tracks would you guys suggest for each instrument? What are some good rules of thumb? When does it become overkill?

Rhythm Guitars? (any panning tips would be nice as well)
Leads?
Vocals?
Drums? (per tom, snare, etc..)
Bass?

pre-thanks for any replies.

[Drew Mazurek]

This is going to sound like a B.S. canned answer, but I assure you it's completely accurate.

And that is.... there is no answer really. People have made single tracking work amazingly well (Eddie Van Halen, Adam Jones from Tool) and people have made 5+ tracks work well (Smashing Pumpkins etc)

No simply is no definitive answer, sorry.

My 2 cents.

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by Drew Mazurek

This is going to sound like a B.S. canned answer, but I assure you it's completely accurate.

And that is.... there is no answer really. People have made single tracking work amazingly well (Eddie Van Halen, Adam Jones from Tool) and people have made 5+ tracks work well (Smashing Pumpkins etc)

No simply is no definitive answer, sorry.

My 2 cents.

Another 2 cents....Drew is correct. But I will toss some ideas for you to think about. Since you are new to this, use the KISS method(Keep It Simple Stupid) as a loose guideline. Keep each part limited to 2 tracks, panned away from each other. For rhythm guitars, I like using a different guitar or amp(or both) on each pass(like a Strat and a Les Paul) for the difference in tone. When you double vocal parts(and I usually do with background parts, and often with leads, even if just during choruses) I will use EQ to thin out each BGV part in the 350Hz range so they don't get so thick sounding as they mask the lead vocal. Remember, the more stuff you try to fit in, the trickier it gets to make the parts work together and not create a mess where nothing has any clarity In the end, try everything, and see what gives you the desired result. No rules here

[Bill Denton]

And, in addition to what Drew and albee1952 said, it doesn't hurt to start with good, fat tracks...

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

And, in addition to what Drew and albee1952 said, it doesn't hurt to start with good, fat tracks...

So true. 1 killer track will beat 10 lousy tracks

[TimothyJohn]

I agree with Albee and Drew. Less is more. KISS. There's an old saying, "the more complex the plumbing; the easier it is to stop the drain". I think this applies to music as well. But layering/doubling tracks can be fun as well. No rules :) !!

[1racerx]

it doesn't hurt to start with good, fat tracks...

I couldn't agree more.

I've heard recordings with 15 guitar tracks that sound thin as hell. Yet the vocals and bass sound great with 8 tracks each, and drums with only certain pieces doubled to punch through. I guess this is going to take some experimentation. thx for the replies.

[musicman691]

And if you're layering multiple tracks for Pete's sake do NOT use (in the case of guitars for example) distortion/overdrive fx on the individual tracks as that will make the composite sound awful. Same goes for other fx. Record dry and then season to taste with all tracks playing for the composite sound. And while you're doing this don't forget to play the composite along with the rest of the mix.

[1racerx]

Originally Posted by musicman691

And if you're layering multiple tracks for Pete's sake do NOT use (in the case of guitars for example) distortion/overdrive fx on the individual tracks as that will make the composite sound awful. Same goes for other fx. Record dry and then season to taste with all tracks playing for the composite sound. And while you're doing this don't forget to play the composite along with the rest of the mix.

I see that working in some cases, and I understand what your saying, but you're not exactly getting the feel of the sound while playing clean. What's the point of buying a recording program that allows you to hear those effects and record at the same time when there are tons of free apps out there you can use to do exactly what you're saying.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by 1racerx

I see that working in some cases, and I understand what your saying, but you're not exactly getting the feel of the sound while playing clean. What's the point of buying a recording program that allows you to hear those effects and record at the same time when there are tons of free apps out there you can use to do exactly what you're saying.

You could always put the fx on an aux track and put the actual fx you'd want after everything is recorded and the composite is done.