Audio Workflow with picture changes??

[dcaudio]

I was wondering how ya'll are doing audio post if there is a possibility of a editing after you begin working. I will be working in LE with a QT and OMF import. I can figure out the procedure to get a mix back to FCP, but if I work on this 22 minute short film and then it changes to 22:30, how will I edit my protools session to reflect the new cut(without having to start from scratch)? I would of course love to work with a locked picture, but I want to be flexible if I can.

Thanx

[Noiz2]

Well traditionally you would use change notes generated by the picture dept. But in the real life world of low budget extravaganzas, your not likely to get change notes and if you do they may well be wrong. SO....
Make your own, sort of.
Take the new guide track and load it in to PT. Line up the two pops (if they are not putting pops on you need to slap their whatevers and make them do it). Then conform the old guide track to the new one. Play them till you go out of sync, cut the old GT and move the remaining part to a spare track. Get the part you just moved into sync and play it till it goes out of sync cut and move the remainder to the original track and repeat till the end of the film. When your done you should have the old guide track cut up on two or three tracks. Now if you go back and cut your working tracks to match the cuts you made in the old guide track you should be conformed and all you have to do is fix the holes etc.
It sounds more complicated than it is, it really goes pretty fast once you've done it once or twice.
Good Luck

[dcaudio]

The guide track editing seems like a good idea. Also, I was wondering if the timecode stamps of the OMF could help. Right now I am using Digitranslator to get a PT session from FCP. The tracks and timeline open up perfectly but the original timestamp says it is out of range. Any suggestions? I have the 2pop at 00:59:58;00 on the FCP session and within PT's.

If the timecode stamping was working and correct, I could spot all the new out of sync regions a specified amount according to the change in the OMF's guidetracks timestamp.

[Mark Reis]

http://www.changenoteassistant.com/ Change Note Assistant might be helpful to you. You'll need the cooperation of your video people to use it effectively. I've run some tests and it worked for me on the tests. It can certainly do the bulk of the changes.

Basically it takes the data from the change notes then builds a script to automate everything you'd have to do to manually re-align the data in your session (audio and automation), then executes that script. I think it's easier than re-aligning to a guide track, especially if clips are removed, inserted, or re-ordered.

[trakbytes]

A variation on seperately cutting the guide track and your actual units, is to group your old guide track with your units. Then, when you drag your old guide track into sync with your new guide track, your units go with it. You still have to go back and clean up the holes and smooth out the cuts.

An added bonus is that any automation that may live with the units is conformed to the new cut as well.

rcm

[cmaynes]

All of the above suggestions should get you there- but realize that there is no "magic" solution to dealing with a picture change- you will always need to go through the cuts to make sure the spirit of your work has not been damaged.

Change Note Assistant is very good at what it does though...

If you are a bit cash poor, there is always Conformer as well.

charles maynes

[jimlongo]

Also check Editrace. It re-conforms your session to a new edl. You can pay per EDL.

[Tiago Silva]

And if you've been given incomplete/wrong change lists by the editing department and are forced to load the old and the new reels in an Avid/FCP whatever to compare them frame-by-frame and make your own change list, make sure that the first thing the editing department sees the next morning is a black cat...



I usually use the change list, select the "All" group, and cut (in Shuffle mode) and extend (in Spot mode) the required number of frames. Now, shots that change position are another can of worms. I just say a little prayer

[Noiz2]

THe problem with any of the change note, EDL conformer etc apps as they apply to a lot of low budget films is that the "picture department" often doesn't follow a "professional" work flow. So for instance an EDL conformer doesn't do any good since they are not doing proper versions and tend to save there sessions rather randomly. Which is the same reason that many, even they are using an app like FCP4 that can generate change notes, they can't generate a usable change note. This is of course not exclusive to Low Budget films, many high budget films with proper picture departments cant seem to figure out how to create useable change notes. I remember screaming phone calls because on a REALLY big budget film I was on the picture folks would send us change notes that were 80+ pages long and had a net change of like 3 frames. And after slogging through it and clearing out junk changes there would be one trim some where. Or we would FF down to the end of the new video and find that the new length was 20 feet off from where the change note said it was supposed to be. We ended up creating our own change notes using a pair of video decks doing pretty much the procedure I outlined with the GT. If I had thought of the GT trick then I would have been a hero.
So on a film that actually generates change notes I would use one of the apps but on low budgets assume you won't be getting any.

SK

[Chief Technician]

How many people have had this conversation?

Mixer : "The locked picture you gave me is out of sync with my audio."
Editor: "Oh, we changed a few things during the online."
Mixer : "Well, can you tell me what you changed and where?"
Editor: "We did something around 01:22:00:17."
Mixer : "Around doesn't cut it. I need the exact timecodes where you made these changes."
Editor: "We'll have to reload our online file to get that (in a tone suggesting they have better things to do)."
Mixer: "Well without that information I cannot layback."
Editor: