Recording CVP 409 digital piano with Pro Tools 8 LE

[Jack Green]

Heres my problem. I'm trying to record my CVP 409 digital piano directly from Pro Tools but i'm finding it very difficult to pull off. For using audio tracks (which was my primary hope), I've tred guitar cables and a stereo trs cable but I just get a quite loud hissing sound, in addition to some signal. I could use a Midi track but I would like the opportunity to add some effects to the sound that is recorded from the CVP, which you can't do with a Midi track.

Now mabye these connections I've portrayed below may contradict the audio track idea, but I was hoping for some insight into this problem. Any help is greatly appreciated. If no help is available, thank you for your regarrd to my problem anyway.


MIDI
Thru ........... Out ............. In



AUX IN USB to host
L/L+R ......... R
USB to device

AUX OUT
L/L+R ......... R


Also Phono plugs (Level fixed)
L ............. R


As described in the manual of the CVP, the 'AUX OUT' connections are for speakers and the 'AUX IN' are for external synthesiser tone generators, and the AUX Outputs are the ones i've been using for my audio cables. (Now that I think about it it seemed like an amateur idea. I was just craving for some loop hole).

[PierreV]

I suppose you mean you want to record your digital piano into protools and not from protools.
Please understand first that you wil be trying to record audio , which has hardly anything to do with midi.
Midi is a ' language " in which midi divices communicate with eachother.
But that does not produce any sound. The hiss you hear most probably is the midi signals.
To record the audio from your digital piano , you connect the audio out from the piano to the audio in on your interface.
You donot state what version of protools you are using so I cannot give you further details.( Might be a good thing to give complete info in future)
The usual routing is : piano into interface , interface into pc.
Good luck
P.S. Aux out can only be to use for active monitors ( monitors with an included emplyfier)and not for speakers since they usually are at "line " level.
If you have no line out on your cvp . you can try to use the headphone out to connect to your interface.
Good luck.

[Jack Green]

Thanks for the reply. When I said 'from' Pro Tools, I simply meant recording an audio track in Pro Tools, picking up the sound of what I play on the digital piano (or I probably need some english lessons). I also know that Midi is just data, not audio. It's just that when I used a MIDI track and it got a signal from the piano, I hoped there may have been a way to record the piano using just the Midi cables. That motivated me to look into MIDI tracks, which I read that you usually use AUX tracks to amplify the sound from the MIDI tracks, but in order to do that you have to use audio cables (which won't work because unfortunately there is no line out available which is quite rediculous, and as previously stated, AUX outputs are no good).

You were right I should have mentioned my audio interface, which is an Mbox 2. I also assumed that the Aux inserts were solely for monitors, what threw me off is that the Aux outputs seemed to be the only option left, as mentioned there is no line out on the piano for some reason. The headphone output the exact same problem as the aux, just a loud hiss. and for clarification, I'm using a dual TRS cable (tip, ring, sleeve) which is brand new, and I also used a normal digital piano which had a line out, and it worked fine.

Funnily enough this doesn't leave me with much options, but yeah thats the information updated, I hope you can still help, otherwise thanks for your regard.

P.S. If there is any minor/inexpensive equipment you can recommend that
could suit my needs, that would be appreciated.

[albee1952]

Almost all keyboards have unbalanced outputs, so using TRS cables might actually be the problem. Try a pair of regular guitar cables(unbalanced cables) and see what happens. As for MIDI, what sound(s) are you needing? The included MiniGrand is a very good piano plugin and DB-33 is a very good Hammond B3 style plugin. Try creating a stereo Instrument track(assuming your keyboard has been setup in the Midi Studio setup), insert one of those VI's in the A slot of the Instrument track and play the keyboard(with just a MIDI cable). That should work just fine(although you will want to set the buffer to its lowest setting in Pro Tools).

[PierreV]

Indeed the cable might be the problem . you should use a simple tip/sleeve cable on the headphone output.
The headphone output wil usually be a tip/ring/sleeve output because it wil be stereo.( in most cases).
By using a simple "instrument cable" ( tip/sleeve) you wil convert that into mono.
I assume you can control the volume with the main volume control of your keyboard.
My Yamaha DGX 305 only has one output that is to be used for both headphone and further amplification of the keyboard.
To be able to use the signal of both left and right of the stereo headphone output I fabricated a cable with tip/ring/ sleeve at one side and tip/sleeve at the other side.
Tip and ring are joined at the end that goes into the amplifier.
In addition to what Albee correctly says about uing midi with a vst , you should note that in the set-up stated by Albee you wil be recording midi-data with the midi-out from the keyboard into the midi -in on the interface.
To give this recorded midi a sound you have to assign a vst instument to the recorded midi track. this can be any instrument in you library.
I hope this wil settle your problem.
Good luck,
Pierre

[Jack Green]

Thanks for the reply albee. I will try those unbalanced cables. When I was talking about MIDI I wasn't trying to use any plugins from Pro Tools, but I was talking about getting the sound from the piano as MIDI, which I now know is not possible as MIDI cables just transfer data. I only thought as much because I was getting a signal from the piano in a MIDI track I had in Pro Tools. Anyway, thanks for the regard albee.

And thank you for the reply Pierre. I have used the TRS cable for the headphones output and have the exact same problem as I did with the AUX output jacks, some signal but mostly hiss. As for the midi situation it's just like I said with albee. I can easily use an instrument track and record it no problem, my ultimate concern lies with recording the piano sound into Pro Tools. Anyway thanks your reply too Pierre.

So overall it seems that MIDI is out the bag and audio cables are on the brink of failure, but I do have another idea. My keyboard has RCA stereo outputs L/R (as described in my piano's owners manual they are used for going into seperate speakers). I'm thinking that I can use a dual RCA cable. One end going into the piano, and the other end with a couple of male jacks to female RCA adaptors, making it possible to go into my mbox 2. Perhaps you can shed some insight on this suggestion and offer any suggestions or decisions of your own. Thanks for reading

This is what I mean by a male jack to female rca
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...pf_rd_i=468294

And this is the dual rca cable
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-Dual-...0440928&sr=1-3

[albee1952]

The RCA cables might do the trick. Meanwhile, you really should give midi a chance here. For straight piano sounds, I'll put the MiniGrand plugin up against the keyboards piano sound any day. Plus, when you record midi and use a plugin "instrument' you can fine tune the midi performance all you want, which is often faster and easier than recording over and over(it can even make me sound like a know what I'm doing)

[Jack Green]

Thanks for the reply albee. Well I certain;y considered using Midi Grand, except that I have a CVP 409PM, which cost £4000. Mabye that should give you a clue to how authentic this piano I have really is, even when compared to Midi Grand, and that includes the rest of the presets like different styles of piano (rock piano, bright piano), also other families of instruments like brass, woodwind, strings, synths, organs etc, with wide varierties of choices.

My overall point being that my CVP piano sounds so much more amazing than alot of the plugins on Pro Tools, and Pro Tools has pretty damn good plugins.
Anyway thank you for your regard albee, much appreciated.

[PierreV]

One more idea though , have you contacted Yamaha and asked them about a solution?
They should be able to tel you how to simply record your piano.
Pierre

[Jack Green]

Thanks for your reply PierreV. Yes it was time for desperate measures, so I did call Yamaha for their support, but unfortunately they told everything that it is now null and void. "There should no be problem with the AUX's, but if so use the headphones output. If problem still persists then your problem goes deeper with your technical situation with your piano, or with Pro Tools".

So they're out of the equation. But thanks anyway for the idea PierreV, much appreciated.