PT Video Sync issue - am I doomed?

[ergalthema]

I'm using Pro Tools LE 8.0 - no DV Toolkit.
As I feared, our unorganized post workflow has turned into a big sync problem. I'm hoping someone here can help me figure out what's going on - even if it means we're screwed and I'm going to have to manually re-sync everything.

Actually, I think I might have just found the main issue. It looks like the first video file that the editor gave me was 29.97fps. The TC burn, and the settings he uses to edit are 24fps. So, it looks like he should have given me a 24fps DV encode - not a 29.97fps DV encode. I didn't notice this originally, because of my lack of video knowledge. Before I started this project I asked at Gearslutz "what is a recommended codec for video in post audio?" - and determined for my situation that DV would be best. At that time, I thought all DV NTSC was the same frame rate - so I didn't check the video file that the editor gave me.

I put a lot of time into a rough mix, knowing that a couple changes in the video might happen. They did. I just got a new file from the editor and started manually (no EDL or DV Toolkit here) conforming a few chunks of audio where they needed to be moved. That's when I noticed that even when I synced up a chunk at the beginning, it would be out of sync after a minute or so. So I started comparing the two video files I have gotten from the editor and sure enough, the recent one is DV at 24fps while the original one is 29.97fps.

After about 4 minutes it ends up about .25 of a second off.

My guess is that I've got a whole lot of work ahead of me. It seems like I've read of some way to change a PT project from one frame rate to another. But that might require DV toolkit or something.
I still don't understand why the real-time of my audio wouldn't simply match any frame rate - even if he gave me a file that was 3.14159fps. Does it mean that PT is playing one (or both) of these files back at the wrong speed?

Any info is very appreciated. I'm going to go cry myself to sleep now...

[ergalthema]

I've also asked this at Gearslutz.

And here's what I've narrowed it down to:

The footage was shot 24fps. The editor is editing in 24fps. He accidentally sent me a 29.97fps DV file that I did a rough mix for. Now there have been a few changes to the cut and I need to import a new video file.

What format of video file should I ask the editor for?

Do I need to do some kind of pull down conversion? And if so, can PT do it without DV Toolkit?

Will anything need to be done when I have a mix for the editor to conform back to his video in Final Cut?

[Craig F]

a) Avid or FCP?
b) 24 or 23.976 fps?
c) how was the project shot? (film, video, signal system or double system)
d) what there a audio pull in TK?
e) what is the finish format?

[ergalthema]

a) FCP
b) 24fps (FCP and QT say that it's 24fps anyway)
c) video
d) ? not sure what the question is
e) to be played at mid-sized festival and DVDs (no budget for separate mixes)

x) I am the entire post production audio crew

I may have reached a conclusion from info at Gearslutz:

• I converted the 24fps to 29.97. There is now no drift in Pro Tools and I can continue working.
• After I bounce the stems, I'll use Sound Hack to pull (down?) the audio (0.1% faster, I think - I'll have to confirm the settings I need for that)
• Should sync back with 24fps in FCP?

[Craig F]

FCP and QT has a nasty little bug of time stamping 23.976 as 24, most "HD" cameras are really 23.976 and not 24, (hence 24p) and displaying 23.976 as 24
was sound recorded to the video tape? that is single system. If sound was recorded to some other Field recorder that's Double System.
if Single system there should be no pulling of audio needed
TK is the abbreviation for the Telecine process of film to video

I think you got a bad QT form the editor (it happen a lot)
DV Tool Kit would be useful but not mandatory
before you go through all these hoops you need to find out what you really have

you will also get much better info in the Post & Surround section here than on Gearsluts

[ergalthema]

I've asked the editor and he says 24fps.
Is there any way I can check for sure?
When I put it in PT, the track says "24fps".

Thanks, I forgot there is a Post section here.

[ergalthema]

Originally Posted by Craig F

you will also get much better info in the Post & Surround section here than on Gearsluts

Only one person replied to either of my posts here...