Have I been off by 164 samples all along?

[DesertDude]

Accorrding to the Digi answerbase the "bug still stands in LE on the Mac

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Here are a few tips regarding latency issues with Mbox on a Mac:

Tip #1:
When recording into Pro Tools LE Mac:
1) Mute recorded enabled audio track in Pro Tools. When recording on Mbox, you are actually monitoring the audio signal going to Mbox. If the record enabled audio track is not muted, you will also be monitoring the signal going out of Pro Tools back to Mbox. This will be heard as a doubling effect because you are hearing both the input and the latent output at the same time.
2) Adjust the "Mix" knob on Mbox to prevent any echo or latency sound.
3) Press the "Mono" button on Mbox. This will prevent the input signal from sounding hard panned left or right when adjusting the Mix knob on Mbox. The "Mono" knob does not affect the mix playing out of Pro Tools, just the incoming signal.

Tip #2:
1) When you record into Pro Tools LE Mac there is a latency of 164 samples. All tracks recorded into Pro Tools have 164 samples of latency, but you will not notice this with the first track unless you have a MIDI click, or a recorded click to play along with. Thus, when you record the second track/pass, you will hear latency when the two tracks are played together. Tip #3 explains how to deal with this issue.
2) Tip #1 just helps to prevent hearing the latency while recording into Pro Tools; however, there will be latency when recording into Pro Tools/Mbox.

Tip #3:
1) After recording your second track/pass into Pro Tools LE Mac, adjust the newly recorded audio track to compensate for the 164 samples of latency.
2) Select the second pass of audio with the Grabber Tool. Edit Menu > Shift. Click "Earlier" and type in 164 in the "Samples" field. Click "OK". Now, Pro Tools will locate the audio 164 samples earlier.
3) "Shift" each track or recorded pass back by 164 samples immediately after recording. If you are stacking up tracks, you definitely want them all to be in sync as each new one is recorded.
4) If you recorded your audio at the very start of the session, you will have to trim in the audio before the waveform starts to allow space for the audio to be shifted 164 samples ahead.




Now, you may ask, are all other passes 164 samples apart from each other too?

Not exactly, each recording pass will be 164 samples behind everything already recorded. If you record one track at a time, and mute recorded tracks as you go along so you're only listening to the most recent track, then yes, your final track (say, 24) will be 23 x164 samples behind the first track, at least in terms of what you're hearing. Technically, the last track is still only 164 samples behind the first track but listening to these delays building up will cause your playing in time to the tracks to start falling behind noticeably.

So if you add one track at a time and listen to all previous tracks on each recording you'll be hearing:

Track 1: On time
Track 2: 164 samples behind Track 1
Track 3: 164 samples behind Tracks 1 and 2, so play in time to Track 1 you're off by 164 samples, but if you play in time to Track 2 you're 328 samples off.
Track 4: 164 samples behind Tracks 1, 2, and 3, but the delays build up differently depending on what track you play off of.

[mobilemac'nstrat]

How helpful can the DUC get?!!

So in short, if you can't be arsed to look on the answerbase; here's the link.
If that's too much like hard work; here's the quote in full. (courtesy Desertdude)
-At a push we could probably come and sing it to you (back dated 164 samples, natch!)

[DesertDude]

[Tubz]

Just checked the "164 samples latency" issue. It's there with P.T. Not with logic, though...

[kestral]

Just checked the "164 samples latency" issue. It's there with P.T. Not with logic, though...

Running Logic Audio Platinum 6.3.3 on a 867 mhz G4 12" Powerbook with an external 7200 rpm LaCie hard drive using the Mbox, I'm getting latency in Logic of over 1500 samples! And the sad part is, there is no nudge back by sample feature in Logic.

If you have any tips on how to rectify this situation in Logic, would greatly appreciate it. Otherwise, guess I'm using Pro Tools LE.

[mobilemac'nstrat]

I'm getting latency in Logic of over 1500 samples! And the sad part is, there is no nudge back by sample feature in Logic.

If you have any tips on how to rectify this situation in Logic, would greatly appreciate it. Otherwise, guess I'm using Pro Tools LE.

Are you sure this is 1500 samples latency between recorded tracks and not just on what you're monitoring?

[toddm7]

This is why my tracks sound all screwed up after I dump them. I love Pro Tools, but the MBox is peice of [bleep]. Who in the f@ck has time to be sitting there with a calculater shifting track 27, 4428 samples to the left. This is an outright outrage!

[Tubz]

Running Logic Audio Platinum 6.3.3 on a 867 mhz G4 12" Powerbook with an external 7200 rpm LaCie hard drive using the Mbox, I'm getting latency in Logic of over 1500 samples! And the sad part is, there is no nudge back by sample feature in Logic.

I'm sure we're talking about different things here. Read the previous posts. There's NO latency in the recorded tracks in logic! And, yes, you can nudge as much as you want to in logic. You assign it in your keycommands!

B.R Tubz

[JFreak]

Sorry, I thought it was 52 samples. 164 samples is fairly noticable.

it's very hard to notice a 164 sample difference. 164/44100 = 3,72ms. i'm not saying you shouldn't do anything about it, because it will eventually lead into phasing problems, but in principle - if one track is 164 samples off - it will go unnoticed. for example the lead singer almost always is way more than 4ms off the perfect clock; and if everything follows the clock exactly, there's no life in the music.

[Piers Gibbon]

ok i'm a pro voice over and thats what i use mbox and le for...so don't flame me for stupidity because i dont normally care about latency...

but when i make music and keep having to shift samples back by 164 i often wonder why the heck doesn't digi have a button on the toolbar so that you select the track or bit you want shifted and then hit that button and it shifts it back by 164 samples automatically...i know its not that difficult doing it manually but....