Mic Preamps....PLEASE HELP!!!!!

[M Lawrence]

I'm recording mainly vocals.........somebody told me that they think I should have 8 mic pres for the 8 inputs of the digi...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">nonsense. unless yer trakkin' drums, worry about getting one or two good to great pre's (depending on yer budget).

I guess they were thinkin I should get a mixer or something......what do you guess think?....mixers with good mic pres?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">if you're thinkin' you're gonna improve on digi's pre's by spending $1000+/- for an 8-pre unit, yer dreamin'. and a mixer? ya got $10,000-$20,000 layin' around? you'd make a MUCH bigger diff in your sound quality (for the same $) by getting fmr's really nice pre (2 channels) and a really good a/d converter, like lucid's ad9624 (again, 2 channels). and if you want to run channels out to mix in the analogue realm, you'd do much better sonically with a quality summing mixer, like this:
http://www.dangerousmusic.com/2buslt.html
, for instance, & mixing within p-tools. it's all about the quality of your signal path & a/d conversion. these are the things that matter.

ml

[where02190]

[quote]Originally posted by M Lawrence:

if you're thinkin' you're gonna improve on digi's pre's by spending $1000+/- for an 8-pre unit, yer dreamin'. and a mixer? ya got $10,000-$20,000 layin' around?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Units like the Presonus Digimax and Focusrite Octapre are MASSIVELY great improvements over the 001 mic preamps, and since they are lightpipe connected also give you improvement over the 001 converters, which is why these units are so popular.

As far as consoles go, there are many excellent consoles for much less than $10,000-$20,000, Soundcraft Spirit M, Midas Venice, Mackie D8B, and if one buys used can save even more. Any of these consoles mic pre's are far superior to the 001.

We purchased our (used) Soundtracs Solologic (24x8x24 with VCA and mute automation) for $3000, and it has 24 superb mic pres that the 001 cannot even begin to hold a candle to.

Hope this is helpful.

[M Lawrence]

all the units he listed were of the $1000+/- range (the +/- were give or take up to $500 at most, not double the figure), and quite honestly, the improvements are of the diminishing returns variety when you're speaking of 8 mic pres. a MASSIVE improvement might be focusrite's isa or red range, and we're talkin ONE mic pre for over $2000; the octopre's a far cry from that, though i would agree it'd most definitely be a step up from the 001' pre's (which isn't really sayin' that much). but at $250 a pre, you don't really expect them to be much more than what they use in the penta range, which are terrible. and at over $2000, i just personally think the octopre's too much for the actual improvement. and the presonus stuff is just plain unmusical; i don't find the digimax to be much of an improvement over the blue tube. there's a good reason why you won't find either pre's at electric lady, for instance. which is why they're marketed at the folk that are hopin' to be of that studio's calbre for a lot less money.
but there actually is some affordable gear out there that can get you quite close, because after a certain level, the differences tend to be in inches, and taste, of course. as far as mixers go, mackie, for instance, is the one company who's products actually make an sm57 sound like a terrible mic, and the only thing good you can say about soundcraft's boards is that they don't sound as bad as mackie's. the $10,000-$20,000 was on one hand, a bit of an exaggeration, but on another, not so. getting a board with great pre's means getting at least a trident series 75 or 80b. as far as superb, well, the 9098i's pre's, a neve 80 series, an api desk, that's what i think of if i'm gonna start slingin' around the word superb, hardly soundcraft or soundtracs. which really start's to bring presonus into sharper perspective. this doesn't mean you can't find a good, or special sounding console for under $10,000; of course you can (here's a thread that might innarest you: http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewtopic.php? t=3072 )
, but there's a lot of luck, and/or possible refurbishment involved. i lucked out and bought a speck electronics 72input console from a friend for $2000, full patchbay, vu's, plus $5000 worth of mogami cabling tossed in for free; only has 2 micpre's, mind you, but vince put jensen input trannies on 'em, and they are quite stellar, especially with his eq. it's kinda like i got a board (a board with 72 channels of speck elect's eq, no less!) thrown in with a great dual mic pre. i was overly lucky. this console originally cost $25,000 brand new. but you do ocassionally see them with 4-6 pre's (the pre's were optional) for around $5,000-$6,000, which is still worth the quality that went into these boards; vince did 'em special ordered, 1 at a time.
but there ain't a whole heck of a lot of special sounding boards for under 10k. and mikchek is talkin' joe meek, art, etc. which is why, if you're talkin' maybe $2000 tops, having 2 solid channels of quality in the signal path and a/d conversion becomes crucial. he's doin' vocals, and 2 channels will also cover most other scenarios, i.e., acoustic guitar. and if he did envision tracking drums, another rnp, or even the studio projects jobbies could be added as he could afford them. but at least he's got the best channel path happenin' for his vocals. and the dangerous 2-bus stuff is bloody awesome! the fact that they now have an lt version for under $1500, means people on a budget doin' it with a digi001 on their mac's/pc's can avail themselves of a backend channel path worthy of a mastering house (dangerous music did the installation for sterling sound, here in n.y.) in any event, i hope this helps to widen your possibilities.

ml

[Mikchek]

I have kinda moved from Mic pre amps to getting a good mixer with good mic pres.....I don't know if I want digital or if I want analog......any suggestions?

[Duardo]

the octopre's a far cry from that, though i would agree it'd most definitely be a step up from the 001' pre's (which isn't really sayin' that much). but at $250 a pre, you don't really expect them to be much more than what they use in the penta range, which are terrible. and at over $2000, i just personally think the octopre's too much for the actual improvement.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think the Octopre's preamps (and those in the entire Platinum range) are several steps up from those in the Digi001. They're not the quality of the Red or ISA stuff, true, but I think saying they're terrible is an overstatement. Plus, it's about $1000, not $2000.

-Duardo

[unclemurray]

Anybody check out the new Trident s100 8 channel mixer/front end? They have an intro price of $1999.

[Lowfreq]

Mikchek, what do you need the mixer to do? Do you need dynamic processors on each channel? Do you need memory recall of EQ's, f/x' etc.? Or just a simple clean board? After months of researching I bougth aYamaha O1V 3 years ago for mostly live & some recording work for both my band and others. I haven't looked back since. There are fine analog boards out there (I have owned many Mackies, Souncrafts, NO Amek, Neves, or SSL's though [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] ) so this isn't a digital vs analog issue for me. It was all about features I needed (and they sound great). After 1 year I bought a second O1V. I also have an AW4416. No, I don't work for Yamaha but they make fine products that have similiar feature sets and layout so you feel right at home quickly. And now the newly, fabulous DM1000 console is out...(much drooling). I won't lie to you though, it does take sometime to learn where things are. The manuals look daunting, but the O1V ones are well writtten. The O1V's are getting cheaper by the day, too! Good luck with your purchase.

[Gabriel Roth]

at over $2000, i just personally think the octopre's too much for the actual improvement.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">M Lawrence, where are you buying your gear?

the Octopre runs just under a grand; with the lightpipe option it's $1,225.

[Larryboy]

I`m using a Mind Print En Voice and the sound is really nice, and you can dial in the amount of tube saturation to change the color. Really nice. Also, the filter switch is a low pass filter for the compressor which means that the compressor doesn`t compress the lower frequencies as much when using the filter.

[dBHEAD]

I like the sound of the Art MPs. Very smooth and warm. The high frequencies (above 10k) usually have to be boosted after recording almost no matter what you're recording because the MPs don't have a good high end response. It's a bit of a pain, but it really is worth it to get that sound. And the high frequencies are definitely there, they just have to be restored to give it that air. In my opinion, with a little knowledgeable tweaking, you can get tracks recorded into Pro Tools through the MP to sound fantastic. For many things, I prefer the MP to most other preamps under 500 dollars.

But not everything. In addition to a poor high end response, it has a pretty high noise floor, so for recording things under 60 dBSPL, it usually isn't the best choice.

I personally don't find the 001 preamps that bad. It's the converters which degrade the sound.

Other stuff. Joe Meek? Good stuff. I like the British Channel. Not sure if they're still making that. HHB? Wonderful sound. Very warm and clean. Love the fatman! It rocks!
The Penta? On my last project I worked with the singer to get the sound he wanted. He tried about 15 microphones and a dozen preamps. He chose the Penta (I used the vocal preset). DBX? I've had difficulty with DBX stuff in the past, so I'm still trying to work off an illogical anti-DBX bias. I will some day. Presonus? I own the MP 20. Great air.

What else? Aphex 207. A good friend owns one. Very quiet; nice warm sound. Drawmer MX60? A bit out of your price range but it sounds like a 2 thousand dollar preamp when you have the patience to teak it right. Grace 101? Very accurate and detailed. I'm sure there are a few I'm forgetting.

Absolute best mic pre I've ever heard? The Manley Slam. Wish I could afford one.