Headroom for Mastering

[Gothboy]

I've read a bunch of the threads on output levels for Pre-Mastering, the consensus being having the mixes between -12 and -6. Right now my mixes are peaking at -3 so they need to come down I guess. This album I'm working on is remixes...some of them dance mixes and I want a relatively loud mastering on it something close to hotmix without clipping. So there are 2 options: Bring all the faders down in the mixes or just lowering the Master bus. I'd prefer to use option 2 as it's quicker...only how can I view the output level as it's coming out that bus besides the meter on that bus? I usually use TL mastermeter on the Master out but that's Pre-fader....is there a way to do this post fader within the session?


Is lowering the master the same as lowering the whole mix?

[accession]

Nope, I'd absolutely leave it as is. What advantage can turning down 3dB possibly have? Not a stab at you, I too read the same 'must do this, must do that' in prep for mastering.

It's not clipping, and dropping it by 3 to 6 dB on a scale of 0 to 128dB (or whatever the dBFS scale works off) ain't gonna achieve anything that the mastering engineer can't muster with their high end kit.

In fact, turning it down risks losing resolution.

On the other hand, I'm a strong believer that the individual tracks should be mixed in at around -16dBFS to -18dBFS, but with the natural summing during the mixing process, the master output is likely to be peaking much louder than than (hence -3dBFS peaks won't be uncommon).

I challenge anyone to disagree.

[Gothboy]

Well this should be interesting! It would be great for others to weigh in here too. As for your 1st question -3 +-3= -6 whic from what I know just leaves more dynamic range for the Mastering engineer to work their mojo. From what I understand the more of dynamic space you leave the louder and punchier your end product will be and this is what I'm after. Though I'm an unwitting player in the volume wars this is an Electronic Pop record...with dance mixes....these tracks have to really kick. I've gotten a lot of internet airplay and one thing I've noticed is that the songs I did previously don't have the volume level a lot of next to other tracks played next to them.....maybe as a result of not giving enough space for mastering.....maybe it's something else. You can check out my stuff here:

http://www.reverbnation.com/user/log...ymaxionvehicle case in point the third song "In October(Lost in Spring Mix" is one of the songs on this remix album....now that mix is a year old and since then a lot has been done to it but you'll get the idea of what is on this album.

The mastering place is not a high end facility(I can't afford it for this one) so I want to make sure I'm giving him what he needs to make these tracks slam.

I've checked out the latest Katy Perry album "Teenage Dream" (no snickering!) and looked at those mastered mixes.....the dynamic range is amazing and it just creams you. The choruses are all hotmixed into the red...(and I don't want that)....but the overall sound is just amazing.
Now I know that I'm not gonna get that production value....not at this price level....but I'm just using an example. I want my songs to be as loud as some of the stuff that is played on the stations that play me.

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by Gothboy

Is lowering the master the same as lowering the whole mix?

Yes. I've seen much bickering about this, but Digi/Avid people have explained that in short, the floating point calculations in PT LE lets you have virtually endless headroom, you can let all your tracks hit the red on their meters if you want and then pull back the master fader into the green, and the signal is OK. It's just math. PTHD is different.

Originally Posted by Gothboy

only how can I view the output level as it's coming out that bus besides the meter on that bus? I usually use TL mastermeter on the Master out but that's Pre-fader....is there a way to do this post fader within the session?

The master inserts in PT are post fader. Mainly because when you want to dither to reduce the bit depth f.ex from 24 to 16, then the dither should be the last thing to happen to the signal. Not a fader lowering or raising the level.

I usually use a aux track as a "sub" master where the inserts are pre fader if I want to use any saturation/compression. Everything goes thru there and then to the master which I usually leave at unity with perhaps a disabled dither plugin.

So insert your meter on the master, set your level with the master fader and bounce. -3, -6, -12... As long as it doesn't clip, the mastering people have what they need.

[Gothboy]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

Yes. I've seen much bickering about this, but Digi/Avid people have explained that in short, the floating point calculations in PT LE lets you have virtually endless headroom, you can let all your tracks hit the red on their meters if you want and then pull back the master fader into the green, and the signal is OK. It's just math. PTHD is different.

None of my tracks are hitting the red. I never let this happen and use level setting and comps to prevent this. Gotcha! LE not HD..cool

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

The master inserts in PT are post fader. Mainly because when you want to dither to reduce the bit depth f.ex from 24 to 16, then the dither should be the last thing to happen to the signal. Not a fader lowering or raising the level..

Gotch here too. I'm not using dither for the mastering bounces. The Engineer has asked for 24-bit mixes.

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

I usually use a aux track as a "sub" master where the inserts are pre fader if I want to use any saturation/compression. Everything goes thru there and then to the master which I usually leave at unity with perhaps a disabled dither plugin..

I did this for a few tracks on the choruses for added punch. I'm only using a EQ 7-band on the master out in insert A plus the metering plugins. You think I should move the EQ to an Aux track and bus everything through that instead?

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

So insert your meter on the master, set your level with the master fader and bounce. -3, -6, -12... As long as it doesn't clip, the mastering people have what they need.

So there's no diff or benefit for him to have that extra room? I'll ask him beforehand of course but there must be some reason for all the debate?

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by Gothboy

You think I should move the EQ to an Aux track and bus everything through that instead?

No reason to do that. But dynamic effects like comp and saturation it's awkward to have post fader, if you touch the fader you change the input on the plugs. That's the only reason that I make the extra master aux.

Originally Posted by Gothboy

So there's no diff or benefit for him to have that extra room?

I don't pretend to be an expert, but I can't see why that should be.

[The Dougfather]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

Yes. I've seen much bickering about this, but Digi/Avid people have explained that in short, the floating point calculations in PT LE lets you have virtually endless headroom, you can let all your tracks hit the red on their meters if you want and then pull back the master fader into the green, and the signal is OK. It's just math. PTHD is different.

Not quite, the sum of all the tracks in the mix can push the master fader in to to the red and pulling the master fader down will not lose any resolution.

Master Faders Demystified V1

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by The Dougfather

and pulling the master fader down will not lose any resolution.

I thought that was what I said?

[chrisdee]

Originally Posted by Ben Jenssen

I thought that was what I said?

Yes you did.

[Inthewoods]

Also to consider is how loud the mix is relative to the peak. Even if the peak is at a generous -12 dB, but the RMS level is -24 dB then there's not much anyone can do for shaping the dynamics in mastering because the mix is already squashed. I tend to end up with 18 to 20 dB between avg and peak before mastering.