|
Avid Pro Audio CommunityHow to Join & Post • Community Terms of Use • Help Us Help YouKnowledge Base Search • Community Search • Learn & Support |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimate
I've said this before...how about upgrading to hdx...then there is no need to ping anything. What you are asking for is inferior to what we have had for years....like over a decade...maybe 15 years...just sayin...
|
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimate
This is not true. Hardware insert delay still exists on HDX
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2024.3.1, HDX 2, MTRX/SPQ, RME BBF Pro + MADIface Pro • S1 x 2, Fire Max11 x 2, Dock, iPad Air5 • Mac Mini 14,12, 12 core, macOS 13.6.6 • RAM 32GB, SSD 4TB, GPU 19 core • QNAP TVS-872XT 148TB TB3 |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimat
I’ve been using hardware inserts for ages with no issues. I can track this way if I choose and insert dsp and/or native on the same track for the most part. I have never had to think about pingin because pt compensates for it when using their interfaces. It just works…literally plug and play.
Is this not your experience? This is not the case obviously with your mtrx interfaces which isn’t one of the main reasons I have not gone in that direction. Ej |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimate
Pro Tools (at least 2022.4 Studio) also compensates for insert delay including conversion time when third party interfaces correctly advertise their latency data.
I've been doing some systematic measurement of insert delay behavior with Pro Tools Studio 2022.4 with three RME interfaces I have (Fireface UFX+, MadiFace, Digiface) . I am very impressed by the insert behavior automatic selection of insert latencies based on what the RME driver is advertising. Like perfect sample accurate insert adjustment at multiple different clock rates, IO buffer sizes etc. The hardware insert DLY shown in the Pro Tools track delay compensation is calculated from the driver latency parameters. So if a driver is advertising bad parameters this could create the need for a negative manual compensation. Impressive stuff, and unlike the documentation implies does seem to correct for conversion time (but again relies on the driver correctly advertising the correct latencies). And checking this by hand in Pro Tools, Logic Pro (using ping), RTL Utility and Apple's AU Lab stuff everything agrees to within a sample. So one thing to suspect with third party/non-DigiLink interfaces if your insert behavior is a mess, negative offsets etc. is the driver is just advertising garbage. RTL Utility (https://oblique-audio.com/rtl-utility.php) or AU Lab (https://www.apple.com/apple-music/apple-digital-masters - see Preferences>Devices>Expert Settings) will tell you exactly what the driver is saying it's RTL latency is, and that RTL latency should be the same as shown in the Pro Tools track DLY compensation for the hardware insert. So for folks seeing negative numbers lets start seeing what RTL Utility or AU Lab reports for your interface. Start comparing things without ignore errors checked and with no plugins in the session , and low latency monitoring not enabled. (and this will only work correctly for the primary IO ports on an interface since the interface can only advertise one latency (e.g. if your interface has analog I/O and a bunch of ADAT expansion, then the driver will typically advertise the latency for the analog ports (it has no idea what the latency is of anything hanging off ADAT)). And then there is behavior I've seen only a few times while doing hundreds of tests when opening a new sessions in Pro Tools and it does gets the latency calculations wrong. Sometimes the calculated DLY it too long (producing the need for negative manual adjustments I've seen things like being too fast by several tens of samples), sometimes too short. It seems to happen when switching Pro Tools between sessions with different sample rates. it does not happen enough to get more of a handle on it, but exciting Pro Tools, disconnecting the interface cable and reconnecting it and restating Pro Tools has always fixes this so far. Who knows if this is related to anything others have seen with negative latencies, or is just something coincidental, something specific to RME etc. I'll have a spreadsheet with notes ready to share soon. Trying to make it understandable. Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 05-24-2022 at 12:00 AM. |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimate
Quote:
|
#16
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimat
Quote:
And then, of course, the modular patching of the MTRX units is not always accurate. When we jump to all the other hardware that can connect to HDX digilink today, its a mixed bag (back in the day, one Apogee firmware was right in its emulation and one wasn't, Lynx was faster than Avid's hardware, etc. Today I've seen Antelope hardware be completely off in its emulation.) There's enough variety in hardware there for HDX that just saying it fixes this is not true. If someone were to go buy HDX hardware and then get mad it wasn't sample accurate with no effort, I wouldn't blame them if they were hearing blanket statements.
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2024.3.1, HDX 2, MTRX/SPQ, RME BBF Pro + MADIface Pro • S1 x 2, Fire Max11 x 2, Dock, iPad Air5 • Mac Mini 14,12, 12 core, macOS 13.6.6 • RAM 32GB, SSD 4TB, GPU 19 core • QNAP TVS-872XT 148TB TB3 |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimate
Quote:
Do you have the "short safety offset" checkbox checked in the RME settings during these tests? When things get off, is the RME being accessed by other software in the background (so is it in use as multi-client -- including, possibly, assigned in Audio MIDI Setup for sounds)?
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2024.3.1, HDX 2, MTRX/SPQ, RME BBF Pro + MADIface Pro • S1 x 2, Fire Max11 x 2, Dock, iPad Air5 • Mac Mini 14,12, 12 core, macOS 13.6.6 • RAM 32GB, SSD 4TB, GPU 19 core • QNAP TVS-872XT 148TB TB3 |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimat
Quote:
Avid Omni Avid 16 I/o 1x192’s All for that very reason….accuracy. I’m assuming that with all of your digital verbs and such that you were running them all via aes? Curious if you were getting your word clock via ads or were you using bnc connections with a clock? Most of my connected gear is analog so I haven’t thought about testing latency there as usually when I’m using verbs there is pre delay. Can you elaborate more on your issues with digital gear? Thanks, Ej |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimat
Quote:
We have house wordclock with distributors per studio. But not all gear accepted wordclock. Most gear was AES, some was toslink or spdif (I honestly can't remember it all because we had a lot of purchased gear but also a lot of protoypes, etc that would come in to get endorsements from the studio owner -- so that stuff was varied and would stay for a few months up to a year.) Wordclock wouldn't affect delay comp (if it did, we'd be into pitch-shifting territory
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2024.3.1, HDX 2, MTRX/SPQ, RME BBF Pro + MADIface Pro • S1 x 2, Fire Max11 x 2, Dock, iPad Air5 • Mac Mini 14,12, 12 core, macOS 13.6.6 • RAM 32GB, SSD 4TB, GPU 19 core • QNAP TVS-872XT 148TB TB3 |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Re: HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimate
Quote:
It is possible I accidentally had Pro Tools and multiple test apps open at once. Tried not to but frankly was getting punch drunk. That is a good suspicion for what might be able to cause this problem. The RME drivers are nicely multiclient but this might be too much to ask for/dependent on the behavior of the other client. I'll get the "good numbers" out first then try to reproduce failures. Now dealing with some stupid problem with MADI routing and Totalmix that is not making sense, time to reset everything... Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 05-24-2022 at 12:06 PM. |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Delay Compensation erratic behavior | wyman | macOS | 11 | 10-13-2017 05:50 PM |
Strange Behavior of Interfaces when insert USB Device | ChrisSimon | Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac) | 2 | 05-09-2017 08:26 AM |
Pro Tools 9 Hardware Insert Delay Compensation with Lynx AES16e and Aurora 16 | SolutionRoom | macOS | 0 | 04-08-2011 10:54 AM |
Erratic Delay Compensation behavior (bug). | The Dubnicks | Pro Tools 9 | 0 | 12-05-2010 09:16 AM |
Strange Behavior on Long Delay Compensation | rnt_u_listnng | Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) | 4 | 08-18-2004 08:41 PM |