Audio and Video out of Sync!

[juanjo!]

Hi everyone!

I have a problem with ProTools I'm also crossposting to the Media100 Forum.

I'm working on a Media100i v8.1.1, MacOS 10.2.8, 2GB RAM.

I've been working for sometime with a ProTools house using the following workflow:

My video timeline settings are 720x486, NTSC, 48KHz, NON-DROP FRAME.

I record my program to BetaSP and then to DVD with Visible Time Code, I prestripe the tape with sync and time code so it's frame accurate.

I export my audio tracks as AIFF files 16bit @48KHz and then burn them to CDas data not Audio-CD, all my audio tracks have two sync pops at the beginning two seconds prior to the program start (btw all my program starts are at exactly 01:00:00:00).

I send the DVD-Video and the DATA-CD to the ProTools house for sweetening, and it always has worked perfectly every time... until now.

This time the audio tracks are longer than the video by one second and twelve frames, so at the end everything is out of sync, at the beginning of the program everything is okay but at the end it's completely out of sync.

The ProTools guy works as follows: he imports the AIFF files to a ProTools session set at 48KHz, 16 bit, 29.97fps non-drop frame. The he digitizes the DVD via a Canopus card and imports the digitized video to ProTools, it has worked everytime... now it doesn't work.

We've been two days at it, I have redigitized the DVD and the audio files back into Media100 and compared them to my original timeline and everything matches, we've changed the video offset, the pulldown settings and other parameters in ProTools to no avail.

Any thoughts or ideas?

Sorry for the long post and TIA.

Regards,

Jj

[Chief Technician]

Try using MPEG Streamclip to rip the DVD video, then convert it for Pro Tools use. I wouldn't trust anything digitized by the Canopus (not genlocked).

[Stuart P.]

Hi everyone!

I have a problem with ProTools I'm also crossposting to the Media100 Forum.

I'm working on a Media100i v8.1.1, MacOS 10.2.8, 2GB RAM.

I've been working for sometime with a ProTools house using the following workflow:

My video timeline settings are 720x486, NTSC, 48KHz, NON-DROP FRAME.

I record my program to BetaSP and then to DVD with Visible Time Code, I prestripe the tape with sync and time code so it's frame accurate.

I export my audio tracks as AIFF files 16bit @48KHz and then burn them to CDas data not Audio-CD, all my audio tracks have two sync pops at the beginning two seconds prior to the program start (btw all my program starts are at exactly 01:00:00:00).

I send the DVD-Video and the DATA-CD to the ProTools house for sweetening, and it always has worked perfectly every time... until now.

This time the audio tracks are longer than the video by one second and twelve frames, so at the end everything is out of sync, at the beginning of the program everything is okay but at the end it's completely out of sync.

The ProTools guy works as follows: he imports the AIFF files to a ProTools session set at 48KHz, 16 bit, 29.97fps non-drop frame. The he digitizes the DVD via a Canopus card and imports the digitized video to ProTools, it has worked everytime... now it doesn't work.

We've been two days at it, I have redigitized the DVD and the audio files back into Media100 and compared them to my original timeline and everything matches, we've changed the video offset, the pulldown settings and other parameters in ProTools to no avail.

Any thoughts or ideas?

Sorry for the long post and TIA.

Regards,

Jj

How long is the program material? The percentages are fairly exact, and you can trace pretty well if you have that info. That will help determine if it's a pulldown issue. Also, perhaps he's got his DVD player set to a true-24 type of progressive rate, or something similar, and he's introducing more error into the system than a simple pulldown will fix (double pulldown). Is there a burn-in? If so, do they match on the PT end?

[juanjo!]

Hi!
Thanks all for your prompt replies.

The program is 28 minutes and 30 seconds long exactly.

I can't reach the ProTools guy right now, so I can't tell you if he has already setup his session with the same time codes as the visible time codes of the DVD (he told me he was going to do that 'cause he was working without setting any specific time code on his ProTools timeline).

As soon as I have more information I'll post again.

Again thanks.

Regards,

Jj

[Stuart P.]

Hi!
Thanks all for your prompt replies.

The program is 28 minutes and 30 seconds long exactly.

I can't reach the ProTools guy right now, so I can't tell you if he has already setup his session with the same time codes as the visible time codes of the DVD (he told me he was going to do that 'cause he was working without setting any specific time code on his ProTools timeline).

As soon as I have more information I'll post again.

Again thanks.

Regards,

Jj

Seems like either the PT guy is pulling his session down and doesn't know it, or you're delivering pulled-down audio files. The length difference for a program of that length would be more like a second twenty frames, but pretty close. I'd be that's what it is, or it could be the progressive setting like I mentioned (again, on his end). The PT guy may also be sample rate converting your audio, by mistake. There are remedies. Write back and keep us updated.

BTW, don't deliver DVD's to post folks this way, you're asking for trouble. Use a standard codec like .dv or .mjpegA

You'll be saner for it!

S.

[juanjo!]

hi Stuart, thank you for your very fast and insightful replies.

I'll try your suggestions and I'll keep you posted.

Regards.

Jj

[juanjo!]

Well, at last we solved it.

It seems that the pulldown parameter in ProTools was on.

Also I decided to follow your advice Stuart, and stop working with DVDs; I've returned to use QuickTime movies for the sweetening sessions, the settings that work better for me are as follows:

Motion JPEG-B, 360 x 240, 29.97fps, single field, non-drop frame, data rate limited to 635 KB/sec, audio track is 16 bits @ 48KHz, uncompressed.

These give me a small file size (1 GByte for a 28 minutes program) and good enough quality for doing lip sync in ProTools. Besides as Media100 native video CODEC and Motion JPEG-B are virtually the same, export times are shortened.

I export the audio tracks from my NLE one by one (I don´t have OMF export), and save them as AIFF, uncompressed, 16 bit @48KHz.

Also I included one sync pop at the head of the program and another sync pop at the tail.

Thanks to everybody!

Regards,

Jj

[Stuart P.]

Hey, all right! Glad it worked out.

S.

[[email protected]]

I am having a similar problem. I bring in a video clip from my new iPad to iPhoto. then copy it to the desktop. then import the video into a protools session that was recording my voice during the shoot. I am able to line up my protools recording with the imported, separated audio track from the iPad, using zoom and nudge. It plays and looks great. Then comes the problem. I mute the original track and bounce to quicktime the protools audio track with the iPad movie. Should work right? Well, I play the new quicktime movie and it starts out just fine, and with a couple of seconds, my lips start speaking after the sound....the movie seems a tad slower than the audio. I am doing this on a mac pro, hd native, from an iPad 3. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.
Claude