Who's not using the 002 preamps?

[The Rockroom]

I use a few different mic pre's (Focusrite TT Pro, Bellari, Drawmer etc), then the signal goes into a Tascam DM24, either through plain old mic inputs, or via SPDIF (TT Pro digital out), then it goes out via ADAT to the 002r. I also use a MOTU 2408 MKIII, which I use to gather other inputs & collect them in the DM24 via TDIF, then send them out through ADAT & SPIDF to the 002. The analog 002 preamps are available in my mic patch bay in the sound room, but I rarely ever use them unless I need to use all 18 inputs at once, but not because I don't like the sound, but rather, because I like the ease and flexibility of tweaking the sound outside of PT.

For large sessions, all inputs from all devices are available in DP 4.6, (but it just ain't Pro Tools), and I export the session to PT.

All of this stuff lives happily together, and as always, the best sound starts with a decently placed decent mic, then a decent pre, & if you are not in love with the Focusrite pre's in the 002, then you may want to take a look at something like the Focusrite TwinTrack Pro, because it is so easy to use & can make an OK mic sound a wee bit better than it would otherwise, and even though I have a pile of other mic pre's, tubed or not, I often go for the TT Pro first for the "air" button, & the easy compressor, especially for voiceovers, which I do tons of here, among other projects.

Sounds a bit convoluded, but I have never been one to get rid of gear I can somehow justify keeping...

[accession]

I don't actually think the 002 pres are TERRIBLE at all

(N.B. Not aimed at you specifically just something to quote from. )

There was a time when the Digi002 pres were respected as a giant leap from the Digi001.

What happened? Now the Digi002's pres are completely unnacceptable by many. What had we been thinking?

truthfully though, if you needed 4 decent mic pres AND the A-D and D-A converters.. leaving aside any of the monitor controls or headphone boost amp or anything else in a 002... can you really do better for about $1000? INCLUDING The software?

what do you imagine PT LE would sell for as a standalone product without hardware?
certainly a few hundred?

now try to put together a PACKAGE of hardware products that does everything that the 002 does for what's left and I'd be highly surprised if you could do it at all, let alone with better quality.

Sure, my $1500 each preamps sound better than the 4 included ones... big surprise.

but for what the 002 IS, and what the 002 COSTS, I don't honestly get the whinging.

What's the cost of parts in a quality pre or AD/DA converter?

Not the mark-up after manufacture, distributing, wholesale, retail... but the cost of the raw parts.

How much more expensive is "quality".

Does more expensive often come down to a few cents in parts and a whole lot more in mark-up to appease the hype/image/expectation?

It suprised me when selling Pioneer AV amps alongside the more expensive Onkyo range (the latter being the better, more respected product), if Pioneer's margins weren't so tight and Onkyo's so large, both products could sell for similar RRP. As it stood, there was much more money to be made in selling "quality".

So what's the mark-up in a $1500 preamp?

[Windshore]

You make a good point "accession". It is true that we all figured the pre's in the 002 were a lot better than the 001. Of course we used to think that the black face Adats were amazing.

I think the reason for dissatisfaction with the 002 is really more about the fact that the competition keeps making better and better interfaces every year, or 2 years..... How long has the 002 been out? I don't really remember. I was among the first to get one though, and it seems very.... well, ...out of date.

It is simply because many of us are "stuck" having to use Pro Tools, and so "stuck" with this big box (dongle) that really doesn't stand out in a world were superior interfaces are available. The paradox of PT LE is that the interfaces you have to choose from are very restricted. With good studio gear, you can often invest in something like a Neve or API pre, then later add a Manley compressor, and cumulatively BUILD a better and better system... but if you're not given a reasonable choice to upgrade the interface....?

PT makes it very difficult to move on when you're ready,... you kinda need to wait till they are ready. They have made it difficult to sync the 002 with external word clock, they don't support SMUX, etc.,

Many of us made the investment in the 002 long enough ago that the new Apogee interface for mac looks VERY TEMPTING! The deal is that if you can bail on PT, you can even go way upstream and buy something like a Rosetta 800 and firewire interface and go right into Logic or DP..... that would be a very serious upgrade.... or pick your poison. Most of us can't justify the 10-14k gap between an 002 and an HD system, yet we're impatient to move on from the 002....

[Snarf]

I use the 002 preamps if I require more than 9 inputs at a time. MOst of my tracking is dubbed anyways, so it`s been a while since I last used more than 9 ins.

I use an M-Audio OCtane via ADAT inn, and a Amek PurePath CIB (incredible sound ), going to one of the 5-8 line ins on the 002(r).
Was thinking about getting a dedicated A/D for the Amek and use it via S/PDIF later..

[lamp]

Hello William Wittman. Glad to see you on the duc.

WW is a Heavy Hitter for sure everyone and Im a fan.

I have had the 428 and i/o card since it came out, so thought I would chime in on this.

William have you ever used the 428? The design was bassed on the ISA 110. I really like the pres on electric guitars and overheads and I think the DI is really pretty good on electric bass. I also like the varible imp. settings, they can really change the mic tone. I also use a MP-2NV and Sytek with the 428 in my project studio but I think the 428 with the card is a nice step up from my 001.

Peace.

[wwittman]

I tried the 428 quickly once and didn't think it anything great.

I come from an admittedly different place.
I NEVER thought the 001 pres were any good or that ADATs were remotely acceptable, for me.

So when i say the 002 pres are tolerable, it's in comparison to really GOOD pres that I've used for 30 years.
I'm not going to reverse myself in a few months or years when the next thing comes out.

I still think a good, discrete, mic pre is going to blow the 002 away... I just don't think that any Focusrite does... or most, if any, other IC based similarly designed pres.

I think it's just become fashionable to hate the 002 pres, mostly promoted by people trying to sell you NEW pres.

If you want to move up to a discrete Neve or a Daking or an API or such, then I am all for it.

But there's nothing WRONG with the 002 pres if you are not going to move all the way up to something like those.


I don't know what the real cost of a GREAT A-D is, but I know George Massenburg has said it's mostly about great clocking and low jitter. His terrific 2 channel A-D costs more than a 002, and all it does is A-D. More than a 192 i/o.

So naturally I don't EXPECT A-D of that quality to come in the 002.

[oldspeckledhen]

I don't think any Focusrite pre (except PERHAPS the original 110 modules) sound better than the ones they made of the 002.

I'll attest to this. The ISA 110 is markedly different from the 002r pres. Different as in...much better.

[mfavila]

so does focusrite make the digi pres? or is that just on the original mbox?

[Violet]

Hi Edwinh quick question, do you use RME Octamic and a Presonus Digimax LT into the analog line of the 002 and the s/pdif in with a Grace Lunatec V3 at the same time? So you have two tracks recording the same performance, say for example a vocal track? -violet

[The Mink]

Wait a sec. I'm totally blown away that WW is defending the 002 pre's. If you think it's fashionable to hate them, then you might be backlashing against that fashion, because I know 100% for sure, without a doubt, these are the worst sounding pres you've tried.

I did a little shootout with a low-end joeMeek a few years ago and a nice Langevin pre, against the 002. I used a mic and a guitar direct, and played the same thing through each.

It was DEPRESSING. Not super-anal audiophile-snob "I think I hear a difference..." It was a week after dropping the $2000 or whatever it was when these came out, when I was all excited about my new piece of gear, and I was in shock at what I heard coming out of the speakers - it sounded like I had a band pass filter on the signal, sort of 'muffled yet thin' if you can imagine that, with no funky 'character' to redeem it as somewhat useable in certain situations.

I'm no audio snob. But man! I couldn't believe the dongle-ness of it all. Even wishful thinking couldn't cover it up.

WHAT GIVES?