Any Drummers Out There with Tips on Miking for Recording?

[firsty33]

I've spent hours on miking my drum kit, and I need some advice.

Quick specs:

Software: Pro Tools LE 8.0.3 (MacBook Pro, Snow Leopard)

Audio Interface: Mbox2

Control Surface: Peavey PV14 Mixer

What I'm recording:

-Pearl EXR Export 5 Piece Kit

-10", 12" toms, 14" floor tom, 14" snare, 20" kick

-Sabian AAX 16" and 18" Crashes, Sabian B8 14" HH, Sabian BB 20" Ride, and Sabian AAX 10" Splash

-Cad Pro 7 Mic Kit

-Shure SM58 for overhead

-Sennheiser E840 for overhead

As of late, I'm getting a really bad ring/boom sound coming through my entire kit. I've put blankets and pillows around the entire set to soak anything up, and I still get that sound.

(The 2 overheads that came with the cad kit require phantom, and I can't use phantom on my mixer, because it doesn't seem to work with pro tools, unless anyone has a solution for that????)

How do I get the best sound with this setup? Every time I break down the drums for a gig, everything seems out of wack, and the eqs on the mixer aren't touched!

This may seem like a lot to ask, but please, any help would be great!

Thanks!!

-Justin

[flommer]

Originally Posted by firsty33

(The 2 overheads that came with the cad kit require phantom, and I can't use phantom on my mixer, because it doesn't seem to work with pro tools, unless anyone has a solution for that????)

Yeah that's not correct.. Those (probably pencil condensers) would be better than SM58..

What ProTools interface do you have? Phantom power has nothing to do with the software..

List your equipment (mixer, etc) and then you can get specific instructions..

There are lots of techniques for mic'ing drums but it depends on your desired end result sound, the number of tracks and mics you have to work with, the sound of the room, etc...

Basically, you need to post more info...

[beto21]

hey bro tell me all that ur useing and i can tell u how to set it up ok.these just way every thing can work bro/email me if u what
[email protected]

[firsty33]

Originally Posted by flommer

Yeah that's not correct.. Those (probably pencil condensers) would be better than SM58..

What ProTools interface do you have? Phantom power has nothing to do with the software..

List your equipment (mixer, etc) and then you can get specific instructions..

There are lots of techniques for mic'ing drums but it depends on your desired end result sound, the number of tracks and mics you have to work with, the sound of the room, etc...

Basically, you need to post more info...

I apologize about the lack of info...

Here's what I'm using...

Software: Pro Tools LE 8.0.3 (MacBook Pro, Snow Leopard)

Audio Interface: Mbox2

Control Surface: Peavey PV14 Mixer

(Also, with the mixer, I have different output options. Should I use XLR from the mixer to the mbox2 or TRS?)

The studio is set up in my basement, with a concrete floor. It's in a corner, with sheets hanging to dampen the sound somewhat. It actually has pretty good acoustics for what it is.

Does this help?

[Darney]

Originally Posted by firsty33

I apologize about the lack of info...

Here's what I'm using...

Software: Pro Tools LE 8.0.3 (MacBook Pro, Snow Leopard)

Audio Interface: Mbox2

Control Surface: Peavey PV14 Mixer

(Also, with the mixer, I have different output options. Should I use XLR from the mixer to the mbox2 or TRS?)

The studio is set up in my basement, with a concrete floor. It's in a corner, with sheets hanging to dampen the sound somewhat. It actually has pretty good acoustics for what it is.

Does this help?

The PV14 has phantom power. Your pencil condensers should work fine. Use the TRS-TRS connection between the mixer and the MBOX, otherwise you're feeding a line level into a mic preamp.

Step 1: Tune the drums.
Step 2: Moon gels.
Step 3: Start simple - two overheads, kick. How you mic the kick depends on what you want it to sound like. Inside, about 4 inches from the beater if you want lots of snap... outside about 6 inches from the head if you want boom. Play with this setup until you get something that actually sounds like your kit.
Step 4: SM57 on the snare.. very close, pointed to the sweet spot. (I rarely use a 57 on a snare, but it's sort of a standard in many studios.. works for most people).
Step 5: Repeat step 1
Step 6: You can add mics to the toms at this point.
Step 7: Ignore the folks who tell you that you need 27 mics on a drum kit.

THEN play around with compression & eq on the kick and snare. Minimum/no compression on the overheads (too much washes them out and turns them to mush).

*of course, all of this is simply my opinion. It works for me, maybe not so much for others. Your results may vary.

[albee1952]

While I certainly agree that you don't need 27 mics to record a drum kit, you absolutely NEED a few GOOD mics. Recording drums via Mbox is an exercise in doing it basic, doing it carefully and doing it right. +1 for getting the kit tuned and damped properly(that's a science unto itself and many drummers are not that good with it). I would start with a decent pair of LDC mics(same brand and model). A good kick mic(Audix D6, Sennheiser e902 are 2 good ones). Take the sheets down as they are not of much use and go to Home Depot and grab several of their quilted moving pads. Hang some a few inches off the wall, and then another set a foot or two in from the first set. Put a nice thick carpet under the kit(you probably did already). This will be an excellent learning experience as the Export kit is not exactly high end(but I bet you can get it sounding good). There are many different head types and each will have a sound of its own(up to you to decide which is best). +1 on the moon gel and consider going with 3 or even 2 toms(this will be more forgiving when it comes to tuning and damping). If hitting the bass drum causes a tom to ring, retune one of them to a slightly different note to avoid sympathetic vibration.

While some will suggest placing the overheads in front of the kit(and I would start at about 5 feet high and 3-4 feet away), you might also try placing them behind the drummer, "looking" over the shoulders(this can work very well in the right circumstances). I would also staple some moving blankets to the joists over the kit(letting the blankets swag down some in between the joists).

[BlueThursday]

With the mBox you are getting two channels into Pro Tools and not individual tracks for each mic when using 3 or more mics. So your against the wall to start.

First, the most important mics are the room mics, followed by the overheads. In entry level recording you may have one or the other, if so I'd go with room mics rather than overheads. I've found LDC's work best for room and SDC's better for overhead but LDC's do great as well, just depends on what you are trying to accomplish. I've never had good results from dynamic overheads or room mics, if you have enough time and patience you may get something tollerable from dynamic room/overheads.

Next is the kick mic. Know how to set it up and know that it's not supposed to catch only the low end of the kick.

If you need more mics, the next would be a snare mic. I use an Audix i5, I have a few 57's which do ok.

With those 4 mics (2 room or 2 overhead, a kick, and a snare) you should have a decent sound. Many pro albums have been recorded this may but they also had pro rooms.

Acoustic treatment of the room is vital, depending on the size of the room, blankets may not be enough. Don't forget that treating the ceiling is important, especially if you are using a bedroom or basement. Exposed concrete is rarely a good thing.

There's a ton more info and details but I'll leave it at that. I'm a drummer with a project studio and have finally got my drums recordings to sound good but I use a 003R along with an API A2D and mics a bit better than a CAD kit or a SM-58.

[cdavis6406]

All of the above are some good sugestions. But i can bet you 10 to 1 its probably your room.

1) It affects drums a great deal. Size/Phase/EQ shabang. Might give that a try. Is the tracks sounding swish and shrill in the overheads, not very consistant?

2)Then naturally the low response in the room.

3) Climate, it effects shells terribly, and humidity is just as unforgiving as temp flux.

With a bunch of factors playing such a big part on the front end, i would run that down first. Is kind of like trying to shoot a specific coin out of the air with a .22, just as some one throws a handful of coins up there with it.

Have fun, Drive on

[flommer]

Originally Posted by cdavis6406

All of the above are some good sugestions. But i can bet you 10 to 1 its probably your room.

1) It affects drums a great deal. Size/Phase/EQ shabang. Might give that a try. Is the tracks sounding swish and shrill in the overheads, not very consistant?

2)Then naturally the low response in the room.

3) Climate, it effects shells terribly, and humidity is just as unforgiving as temp flux.

With a bunch of factors playing such a big part on the front end, i would run that down first. Is kind of like trying to shoot a specific coin out of the air with a .22, just as some one throws a handful of coins up there with it.

Have fun, Drive on

+1 albee had good suggestions for doing what you can with the space.

Also try moving the kit into different places in the room, changing it's direction, etc. What may be the most convenient might not be the best for sonics..

[Darney]

Originally Posted by albee1952

While I certainly agree that you don't need 27 mics to record a drum kit, you absolutely NEED a few GOOD mics.
While some will suggest placing the overheads in front of the kit(and I would start at about 5 feet high and 3-4 feet away), you might also try placing them behind the drummer, "looking" over the shoulders(this can work very well in the right circumstances). I would also staple some moving blankets to the joists over the kit(letting the blankets swag down some in between the joists).

Some great tips here, especially on the good mics recommendation. Try Albee's over the shoulder technique for sure... I've done it several times and in some cases, it's the perfect solution for drum techniques.

Also.. you can get the moving blankets for dirt cheap at Harbour Freight.