New first AVID setup around CARBON advice needed

[MrGaia]

Hi,

My name is Josh and I want to invest in a new and first AVID Setup centered around the CARBON interface. I do record mostly with 2-4 Mics at once, so no need for a bunch of mic pres. I want high quality converters and also DSP. I don’t need hundreds of VST instruments.

Mainly I stay ITB. I do have monitors and a monitor controller.

First question arise: What kind of MAC? Also regarding the topic ‚future proof‘, I assume it might be better to invest in a newer Mac than in an 2013 MacPro6? Are there any opinions about that?

I am not familiar with the driver support of AVID, but I assume that they offer driver support for many years (even when the CARBON will be discontinued some day?). In my experience so far, I have experienced everything from ‚outstanding‘ driver/firmware support like LYNX to almost ‚no support‘ from Steinberg.

Due to my budget three came to my mind (all three are officially compatible with the CARBON, according to AVID).

Late 2013 MacPro6,1 12-Core 'Ivy Bridge' 2.7 GHz

2020 Mac mini 9,1 8-Core M1 'Silicon' 3.2 GHz / 8-Core GPU with 16GB Memory

Mid 2018 Retina 15" MacBookPro15,1 6-Core i9 'Coffee Lake' 2.9 GHz

Second: How well works the integration of S1 Faders and the Avid Dock in that setup?

I also have a Yamaha Keyboard MX61, some mics. That’s pretty much my setup!

I appreciate any advice.
Thanks!

Josh

[Darryl Ramm]

There is a knowledge base article you should read: https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...n-Requirements

I think most folks here will try to avoid anything as small as 16GB memory/consider it a bare minimum. I'd personally consider 32GB and above.

Buying an old Intel Mac and then having limited time with updates from Avid or Apple is probably starting to be a be a risk now. When will vendors stop updates for Intel? Nobody knows but I'm guessing around 2 years of updates left. Other guesses will vary.

Carbon look nice for what they do, but you really want low/no latency tracking through AAX-DSP plugins? (are you a HDX user now? All the plugins you want to monitor through are available in AAX-DSP?) Are you OK with the strange choice of AVB to the interface? If not there are other interface choices out there that I'd go to before Carbon, and since you mention budget-the other good options are often lower cost. And you can live with the current non-expansion beyond a single carbon box (and its built in ADAT etc). Maybe that will change in future, but the limited DSP processing power on board is an issue for some. 8 preamps is a nice feature if you need that.

[MrGaia]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

There is a knowledge base article you should read: https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...n-Requirements

I think most folks here will try to avoid anything as small as 16GB memory/consider it a bare minimum. I'd personally consider 32GB and above.

Buying an old Intel Mac and then having limited time with updates from Avid or Apple is probably starting to be a be a risk now. When will vendors stop updates for Intel? Nobody knows but I'm guessing around 2 years of updates left. Other guesses will vary.

Carbon look nice for what they do, but you really want low/no latency tracking through AAX-DSP plugins? (are you a HDX user now? All the plugins you want to monitor through are available in AAX-DSP?) Are you OK with the strange choice of AVB to the interface? If not there are other interface choices out there that I'd go to before Carbon, and since you mention budget-the other good options are often lower cost. And you can live with the current non-expansion beyond a single carbon box (and its built in ADAT etc). Maybe that will change in future, but the limited DSP processing power on board is an issue for some. 8 preamps is a nice feature if you need that.

Thanks for your honest reply! That’s really helpful! I am new to AVID, so my number of AAX-DSP plugins is around zero. I am no HDX user, what would be a better and more budget friendly option in your opinion?

To be honest, I don’t need 8 Mic Pre Amps, I mainly use 1-2 (sometimes up to 4).

Thanks

[MrGaia]

Hi, Thanks for your honest answer! I appreciate it!

You might be right, I am new to AVID and not a HDX user right now. I have no AAX-DSP plugins available.

What AVID alternatives can you recommend to experience low latency? Also driver support is important. Units that are more budget friendly are more than welcome! And a recommendation for my computer issue would also help.

Also, I don’t need 8 Mic Pre Amps, mostly I use 1-2 (up to 4 from time to time). It seems that the CARBON is not the ideal solution for me.

Regarding AVB, I don’t use it. But as far as I know, it’s similar to DANTE. But I guess, DANTE is far more common than AVB.
Oh, I see…You need an adapter to connect TB to Ethernet…if the MAC doesn’t have an Ethernet port. Or I can use a network switch (USB Ç), where I can plug in the CARBON for example.

Thanks

[Darryl Ramm]

You *will* have AAX-DSP plugins available... including most of the standard Avid plugins. And you should check any third party ones you have, many of those may be (VIs of course won't). If you are confused about stuff like this you really should spend more time before trying to make decisions, and follow my advice below and call a good sales rep when ready.

The bottom line is how you want to track, there is really no other benefit to Carbon except low/no latency tracking though AAX-DSP plugins.

What interface do you have now? Do you monitor through Pro Tools or a hardware mixer? Do you need to run other DAWs (another reason I'd stay away from Carbon, even though it can work with other DAWs).

There is no end of great interfaces from many vendors, in no special order Motu, UAD, Apogee, RME, Focusrite, Presonus, .. Personally I'm a big fan of RME and have multiple of their interfaces, rock solid drivers and software updates etc. arguably better quality software and a reputation for less interface problem than you have with Avid products like Carbon.

All interfaces will provide hardware monitoring, many will provide on-board hardware mixers and DSP effects for monitoring, ranging from basic though to quite sophisticated. But it's up to you how you want to do this/what features you want.

What I'd do is pick up the phone and call a sales rep at Vintage King and talk about what your needs/budget/experience etc. is. Let them earn their money by helping you understand the options best for you. Then give them your business for that work.

[MrGaia]

Ok, regarding the plugins I have to double check.

Right now, I have an MacBookAir 2017 with 8GB RAM and I had a hiatus with recording for about 2,5 years. My software is an older version of LOGIC.

My interface is an amazing Symphony I/O (ProTools and USB compatible) which still works, but I am not sure about the further support.

I would like to switch to Pro Tools and thought the CARBON might be a good option. A friend of mine is a big ProTools fan and he convinced me to change.

RME are great of course, especially with windows. Or I could get a used AVID interface/converter.

[Darryl Ramm]

If you have a Symphony Mk I I'd keep it, they are great, maybe look for different used expansion cards. Mk II I'd definitely not sell.

There is nothing wrong with Logic Pro. And unless there was a good reason (collaborating with others, needing to learn Pro Tools for a job, needing to take in Pro Tools work, professional post work, ATMOS mixing, etc.) I'd not just switch because somebody said to. And I would not switch DAWs and interface and computer at the same time. Maybe your friend should be learning Logic Pro? And realize you'll be paying ~$600 plus future annual fee for Pro Tools, or paying for a subscription. Or if digilink paying thousands for Pro Tools Ultimate.

"Pro Tools and USB compatible"... uh *no*. Again you need to understand this better. You are talking about Digilink...an (now very old, but still nice) interface connection standard developed by Digidesign/Avid. Pro Tools Ultimate or standard can use the USB connection to the Symphony just fine. Ultimate can connect to a symphony via Digilink interface but you pay $$$ for that privilege and likely get little in return, maybe a little better latency, and better IO expansion, which you don't need.

MacBook Air with 8GB is really too light for Pro Tools, if it runs Logic good enough for you then that's another reason not to change. And if that works OK for you now then heck I'd stay on what you have and go make music, you start pulling threads and things unravel. OTOH if the MacBook Air is not cutting it at all, then sure you have to upgrade it.

It's almost like you are thinking you are better off with an Avid interface, unless you really know what you are getting into I would wager you are much better off without an Avid interface, all their consumer stuff has been abandoned (a good move by Avid), and that leaves Carbon or Digilink interfaces and a HD Native or HDX card and lots of additional complexity and cost (including a Digilink licenses and need to run Pro Tools Ultimate) for what I am guessing is absolutely no benefit to you. Reasons for going Digilink, especially with HDX are for large amounts of IO, which is not you, and/or familiarity if folks want Digilink interfaces they are used to working with. And you are not looking at high end MTRX and don't say need MTRX based complex monitoring systems etc. Just stay the heck away from Digillink.

UAD tend to kick ass on Mac as well as windows. That first class cross platform support is pretty important to some users (including me).

You sure your "friend" is not just trying to get you to buy a Carbon for him to use?

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by MrGaia

Hi,

My name is Josh and I want to invest in a new and first AVID Setup centered around the CARBON interface. I do record mostly with 2-4 Mics at once, so no need for a bunch of mic pres. I want high quality converters and also DSP. I don’t need hundreds of VST instruments.

Mainly I stay ITB. I do have monitors and a monitor controller.

First question arise: What kind of MAC? Also regarding the topic ‚future proof‘, I assume it might be better to invest in a newer Mac than in an 2013 MacPro6? Are there any opinions about that?

I am not familiar with the driver support of AVID, but I assume that they offer driver support for many years (even when the CARBON will be discontinued some day?). In my experience so far, I have experienced everything from ‚outstanding‘ driver/firmware support like LYNX to almost ‚no support‘ from Steinberg.

Due to my budget three came to my mind (all three are officially compatible with the CARBON, according to AVID).

Second: How well works the integration of S1 Faders and the Avid Dock in that setup?

I also have a Yamaha Keyboard MX61, some mics. That’s pretty much my setup!

Josh

Josh first let me clarify it is very hard to qualify for someone else wether they should or should not invest in any given piece of gear or system.
That said I will only offer my opinion as someone with (I think) similar work flow and usage, who uses a Carbon

Darryl does make some good points and I agree that you should probably make certain you want to switch DAWs (however I would not venture to suggest either way) But if you do As noted PT costs on either an annual basis or can be on a monthly basis as needed (again depending on you specific habits ) BUT note you will get a PT license with Carbon and if you for example, choose the annual renewal of the perpetual license currently it is $300 for Regular PT and $400 for Ultimate -----not $600

As far as the Carbon itself you will not find better mic pre's or conversion in an interface at the price range. Also AVB is not really much of an issue, if you use Mac computers.

You will not find a more simple way to get and use DSP Using Carbon's hybrid DSP native software is basically plug and play, and is completely integrated and simple (no secondary software layer like UAD for example) .
Also note the firmware updates for Carbon comes automatically with the Pro Tools software download so I do not see support going away.

And given your indicated typical use Only using 1 -4 mics at a time etc. Then expansion is not really a consideration or an issue (although-- "I don't need hundreds of VI" is really not informative) If like me you only use a few VI's if at all , like say 1 to maybe 3 or 4 to enhance your audio then the slight extra latency of AVB vs TB 3 or 4 connection is not really an issue, especially if your computer is powerful enough to run at lower buffers 32 ,64, 128 .....

And with that in mind if it were me and I knew I wanted to go the PT and Carbon route I would consider selling the Symphony to help fund the most powerful Mac computer I could afford ..

You will not find a better or simpler system for DSP recording and dubbing audio

[MrGaia]

Thanks Darryl, I appreciate your advice.

There are a few things I would like to mention:
I will going to upgrade my interface for sure, also the MacBookAir got problems, not only with Logic.

Regarding ProTools, I felt comfortable working with it in the little studio of my friend the last couple of weeks. The UAD platform is not my cup of tea, their customer support was not very helpful at that time.

So, the CARBON is still an option for me.

Edit:

@K Roche: Thanks, you mentioned some very important points:

Converter quality. That’s my most important aim regarding recording and monitoring. Coming from an Apogee, I don’t want a step back. In that regard the CARBON would be en par, if not better.

I prefer simple setups, that was also a point that spoke to me, when I was doing research about the CARBON.

Latency won’t be much of an issue for me, because I use less than 5 VI‘s at a time. I can live with AVB. And the yearly subscription is not a deal breaker for me, I can calculate with that.

Regarding plugins, I only own 15 plugins (waves & Plugin Alliance), except the stock plugins from a DAW. When I tried ProTools the last weeks, I really loved the SONNOX plugins and the System 6000 ones from TC. I think, I will invest in these two in addition and that’s it.

And of course, one of the powerful new generation Macs will also be on my list.

If there’s some money left, I can invest in the S1 or the Dock.

[MrGaia]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Josh first let me clarify it is very hard to qualify for someone else wether they should or should not invest in any given piece of gear or system.
That said I will only offer my opinion as someone with (I think) similar work flow and usage, who uses a Carbon

Darryl does make some good points and I agree that you should probably make certain you want to switch DAWs (however I would not venture to suggest either way) But if you do As noted PT costs on either an annual basis or can be on a monthly basis as needed (again depending on you specific habits ) BUT note you will get a PT license with Carbon and if you for example, choose the annual renewal of the perpetual license currently it is $300 for Regular PT and $400 for Ultimate -----not $600

As far as the Carbon itself you will not find better mic pre's or conversion in an interface at the price range. Also AVB is not really much of an issue, if you use Mac computers.

You will not find a more simple way to get and use DSP Using Carbon's hybrid DSP native software is basically plug and play, and is completely integrated and simple (no secondary software layer like UAD for example) .
Also note the firmware updates for Carbon comes automatically with the Pro Tools software download so I do not see support going away.

And given your indicated typical use Only using 1 -4 mics at a time etc. Then expansion is not really a consideration or an issue (although-- "I don't need hundreds of VI" is really not informative) If like me you only use a few VI's if at all , like say 1 to maybe 3 or 4 to enhance your audio then the slight extra latency of AVB vs TB 3 or 4 connection is not really an issue, especially if your computer is powerful enough to run at lower buffers 32 ,64, 128 .....

And with that in mind if it were me and I knew I wanted to go the PT and Carbon route I would consider selling the Symphony to help fund the most powerful Mac computer I could afford ..

You will not find a better or simpler system for DSP recording and dubbing audio

Thanks, you mentioned some very important points:

Converter quality. That’s my most important aim regarding recording and monitoring. Coming from an Apogee, I don’t want a step back. In that regard the CARBON would be en par, if not better.

I prefer simple setups, that was also a point that spoke to me, when I was doing research about the CARBON.

Latency won’t be much of an issue for me, because I use less than 5 VI‘s at a time. I can live with AVB. And the yearly subscription is not a deal breaker for me, I can calculate with that.

Regarding plugins, I only own 15 plugins (waves & Plugin Alliance), except the stock plugins from a DAW. When I tried ProTools the last weeks, I really loved the SONNOX plugins and the System 6000 ones from TC. I think, I will invest in these two in addition and that’s it.

And of course, one of the powerful new generation Macs will also be on my list.

If there’s some money left, I can invest in the S1 or the Dock.