Download latest Ventura update without installing

[zakco]

I'd like to update Ventura to the lastest version to create a new boot drive with PT 23.9 for testing.

It's been years since I downloaded an offline installer for mac OS. I can't seem to find a way to download the installer to be run at a later time. Using software update in the control panel just immediately launches the installer and the app store just launches the control panel.

How can this be done?

[Darryl Ramm]

You can just download the Ventura installer to your current booted system from the App Store. It puts that installer in /Applications

If needed create a new volume, or erase an existing volume you want to do a clean install on using Disk Utility. You are hopefully installing to an SSD and if so volume you create should be APFS (plain APFS not case sensitive).

When you run the installer just pay attention to what it is asking you it will ask you where if you want to do an update to the current system (NO!!) then select the volume you do want to do a clean install to.

Before starting any of this have a known good backups just in case.

You do not need to create a bootable installer, or an "offline" installer. You have a running system, just run the standard installer.

---

But Sonoma just came out, so why not test Pro Tools 2023.9 on that? Seems stable for many of us. Concurrent threads about that running on DUC.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

You can just download the Ventura installer to your current booted system from the App Store. It puts that installer in /Applications

If needed create a new volume, or erase an existing volume you want to do a clean install on using Disk Utility. You are hopefully installing to an SSD and if so volume you create should be APFS (plain APFS not case sensitive).

When you run the installer just pay attention to what it is asking you it will ask you where if you want to do an update to the current system (NO!!) then select the volume you do want to do a clean install to.

Before starting any of this have a known good backups just in case.

You do not need to create a bootable installer, or an "offline" installer. You have a running system, just run the standard installer.

---

But Sonoma just came out, so why not test Pro Tools 2023.9 on that? Seems stable for many of us. Concurrent threads about that running on DUC.

thanks for the info.
In regards to a backup, I have always used Super Duper to create a bootable clone after every major OS or App update. Apparently SD and Carbon Copy have become useless on Apple Silicon. I tried and SD fails every time. How is everyone else doing this?

As for Sonoma, it's unsupported in PT with supposedly major changes to core audio. Seems risky considering how many other different pieces of hardware and software are also unsupported. I'll pass for now...

[Darryl Ramm]

No, backup utilities have not become useless with Apple Silicon.

What they can't do anymore is incremental backups to a bootable clone.

This has been disucssed on DUC in the past but Bombich software (CCC developers) probably has the best well written blog posts explaining this. And they have capability build into CCC that allows you to create bootable clones... even if all it does is drive a lower-level Apple utility to do that. I made two bootable SSD clones of a Apple Silicon MBP running Sonoma yesterday using CCC and booted them. Easy as anything.

And you can make perfectly great backups on these systems that are not bootable, but support incremental backups etc. And I'd still do that over time machine any day.

I would be surprised if SuperDuper don't explain this as well, you should look for that documentation.

--

Be careful with what "unsuported" means, it is not officially supported yet.

And as I said there are many of us running 2023.9 on Sonoma, obviously with Core Audio, and in my case with kernel and/or users space drivers from RME, and utility drivers including Pro Tools Audio Bridge, Amoeba Loopback, Blackhole, etc. I have not run large stress tests yet on the RME drivers, and will when I get my larger RME interfaces setup, but early tests, including with aggregating some interfaces with the Mac Speaker look OK. (e.g. from a quick/first test: 64 sample H/W buf @ 96 kHz, 16 stereo track going out 16 stereo tracks coming back in in record on a MADIface USB, mix of light plugins on each output and input track (EQ3 7 band -> D3 Comp/Limiter -> Reverb One). Latest RME USB user space/DriverKit driver. 2019 8 core MacBook Pro. And that was surviving opening and closing web browsers etc. All hail RME drivers ).

[devinemke]

Mr. Macintosh has downloads for all versions of macOS. the links are directly to Apple's own CDN. I use this often for making bootable USB sticks for different macOS's.

hope this helps

[peapodpost]

use this

https://github.com/ninxsoft/Mist

[Darryl Ramm]

...Folks that's all (really) nice if you have more technical needs but the question here is how do you just download the latest Ventura installer. And it's trivial, it's still in the app store, you just download and run it. No need for bootable installers, and should be easy to find in the app store.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

...Folks that's all (really) nice if you have more technical needs but the question here is how do you just download the latest Ventura installer. And it's trivial, it's still in the app store, you just download and run it. No need for bootable installers, and should be easy to find in the app store.

Honestly, the reason for the question is that there is no "download" option from the app store/system settings method. It APPEARS" to begin to install immediately after clicking update. The last time I updated my DAW computer's OS was 10.8.5 and at that time, you could easily find and incremental version of the installer that you needed and download it without installing. Remember these links:

https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1676?locale=en_CA

I would always do this with the final decimal update as an archive of the most mature revision of that particular OS. In the rare cases where Avid and Apple aligned with the cosmos and the latest PT was avid approved with the lastest Mac OS was often a magic moment of stability. I had this with Mountain Lion and PT 10 - the most stable combination I've experienced. I locked that **** down for a decade of trouble free (and no avid$) for a decade. It was bliss until my business model shifted and I needed to run newer software.

So...Devinemke and Peapod post, thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for!

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by zakco

Honestly, the reason for the question is that there is no "download" option from the app store/system settings method. It APPEARS" to begin to install immediately after clicking update.

I would not be telling you to do something that does not do what you are asking to do or is dangerous.

As the main take away here please understand the installer, it's going to effectively ask you if you want to do an update or new install, but it does that in a not-great and possibly confusing way.

The key question happens after you accept the license in the installer you'll (see the attached screen shots -- in this case a Sonoma installer running on Ventura, but it's the same UI/question) asking where you want to install to, it will only list the current boot volume... that's *NOT* what you want if you want to do a full install to say your external drive. So instead click on [Show all drives]. (next screenshot) That is where any volumes you created for a new install or an external drive you want to use will show up and you just select that, and the installer will do a full install there (if it's an empty volume). In my case here the Mac is running Ventura and it just shows another existing boot volume for Sonoma.

This behavior of the installer has been this way for many years. I know people get confused about the need to click on that [Show all drives] button and can plow past it and be doing an update to their current system without meaning to. However you'll face the same or other risks regardless of the different ways you download the installer.

All those other sites are very handy for when you need something not just the standard stuff from the store. And it's also finally good to see Apple more openly including old links in their support website/FAQs etc.

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And not the main point here, but the macOS store uses the button/verb "Get" and you should get a pop-up asking you to confirm the "download". So at least the flow from the Apps Store should be kinda clear youa re downloading stuff (if I'm missing something there let me know). Maybe you see a different flow here if you clicked on system update available? And either way will start the installer running after it is downloaded, but you can quit it at any time and it's saved in /Applications.

[zakco]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I would not be telling you to do something that does not do what you are asking to do or is dangerous.

I wasn't suggesting you were. It's just a strange, unintuitive way for apple to provide these updates, compared to offering a direct download link like they used to.

And not the main point here, but the macOS store uses the button/verb "Get" and you should get a pop-up asking you to confirm the "download". So at least the flow from the Apps Store should be kinda clear youa re downloading stuff (if I'm missing something there let me know). Maybe you see a different flow here if you clicked on system update available? And either way will start the installer running after it is downloaded, but you can quit it at any time and it's saved in /Applications.

Nope.
Clicking "Get" in the app store automatically opens the software update section of the system preferences app, which when started "appears" to begin installation. NO mention of downloading or a prompt for location. Starting that process immediately brings up the license agreement, which sure resembles the install process rather than a simple file download. What am I missing here?