Super 16mm crystal sync camera on location w/ Pro Tools!

[sorinnitoi]

A friend who used extensively Pro Tools to record bands got a job being the sound recordist (mixer man) for a short movie shot on a super 16mm sync sound camera. He will need 6 inputs and for him the easiest solution (and less expensive one) is Pro Tools. What do you think will be the differences of using it versus Fostex PD-6 for example?
I'm not sure if the camera is generating time code signal or the "pilot" sync signal (I worked with Nagra 4.2), but let suppose it is capable of outputting some sort of sync signal; what should he do to have the Pro Tools being synced with it?
Have you ever recorded for film on location using Pro Tools? How you did it?

Sorin

[The Mighty Burner]

depends on the PT rig, doesn't it? If it is PTLE, I don't believe you can work with TC unless you have the DV toolkit (and still...how would you get TC into PTLE?), and I don't believe the 16mm will be outputting word clock...it probably sends out a sync pulse signal derived from it's shutter. What is the PT config and which 16mm camera?

I really don't think PTLE is a good choice for double system field sound recording...it seems a slate would be the only way to go, with manually syncing the sound to picture using the sticks.

If PTLE even outputted SMPTE TC, you could feed that into a smart slate, but I don't believe any of the interfaces will do it.

Perhaps there is a smart slate these days that can use MIDI TC?

quite the pickle....

good luck!

[BRH]

Ya, forget about PT, use the Fostex PD-6and TC slate. You don't have a sync cable between camera and recorder. Record 30fps non-drop TC and 48k24b.
BTW, why are you recording 6 inputs at once? One good boom operator can cover 2-3 people, and omni Lavs just add up a lot of room noise.

[mnoxious]

Don't use PT for on location recording. Even LE with DV toolkit won't generate timecode to sync to a slate. If you must you can always use the clapper slate to sync, you don't need timecode (just good logs). I would get something like the Fostex PD6 if you need six channels or there are a bunch of 4-track hard drive recorders that can generate timecode and sync to a slate. I would say that is your best bet. (Plus they all run off batteries and you wouldn't have to lug around a laptop and your pro tools rig.)

I've worked with a bunch of super 16 cameras and they usually don't generate any timecode. You can slave a few of them (Arri SR3 for example) but all they do is etch the code onto the film (in between the perfs I believe). This helps the telecine guys but that's about it.

Hypothetically, if the camera does generate and outputs its own timecode there is only one way to get LE to be able to use that code and it's a pain. One, you would have to be tethered to the camera (at all times) with a cable that sends code from the camera to an input on your rig. You would then have to record the incoming timecode as an audio track (a noisy cricket track) along with the other location audio you are recording. The timecode track can then be used later in slaving pro tools to another device in order to match audio to picture. This is accomplished by sending that timecode track out one of the outs on your rig and connecting that line to the TC input on your other divice (like a DA-88 or DigiBeta deck or something) You'll never be able to view the timecode as numbers (because it is just an audio waveform). I had to do something similar to this once to layback some post I did in LE to a DA-88. It was a two hour show and I only had to sync once and it still was a big pain. I couldn't imagine having to do it for every single take!!

Recently I recorded some live stuff to protools, and in order to sync sound to picture I used a timecode generator to lay a noisy cricket TC track and the cameras all shot a timecode slate every time they changed tape (or started recording). I was recording at least an hour at a time and so if the editor did have to slave my PT session, he would only have to do it up to four times. However, Pro-Tools was my backup and we would only use it if my 4-Track Hard Drive recorders failed (which they didn't).

There are ways to make it work but really pro-tools is not meant to do location recording for film.

[Craig F]

I must concur, Pro Tools is not a field recorder.
A TDM rig on a sound stage maybe, but not for location

the big questions are:
what is the work flow method?
what is the finish format?
how is sound going to be married to picture?

the first 2 can effect the third