hdx aaxdsp is dying

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by martthie_08

ok thanks I'll need to double check this, though I did email support and their reply was: "We don't have any info on a future compatibility update for Hybrid, so at the moment, we can't confirm when it will be released, if ever."

perhaps they mean if Hybrid will have an version 10 / X as well, I don't know. At least, it works rock solid over here and actually use the native auto-tune X and hybrid mixed in a session, choosing Hybrid when I want to have some quick corrections on a DSP enabled track already. Both work awesome and the entire Antares lineup is aax silicon native for a while :)

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by K Roche

Well you can keep telling yourself that . But logic actually dictates that it is self evident that your doomsday prognostication from almost 6 years ago has yet to actually materialize,, so it's validity is even more questionable now than it was then.

Not to mention a slow down in development of new HDX-DSP plugins which could be,,, but doesn't matter,,, because it does not mean the platform itself is "dying" (your claim in 03-04-2018) it simply means a current slowdown in development.

Same with your silly purported "proof" because some dealers were out of HDX cards in 03-04-2018, and yet most Avid retailers have HDX card in stock today. Opps


And no it's neither logical or remotely analogous to equate a software platform to the requirements for "feeding" a living organism That is just absurd illogical reductionism, no wonder your prediction petered out as valid long before HDX aax-dsp

What actually seems logical is what eventually may lay HDX-DSP plugin format to rest,,, will be IF and WHEN Avid develops a new alternate to HDX hardware like they did TDM YET interestingly TDM is still in use is a number studios today . Opps again ..

I'm not surprised that DSP plugins aren't released as frequent as native plugins. A lot of new plugins nowadays can do quite some complex things, that might be too heavy to put on a dsp chip, but at the same time those kind of plugins are completely unnecessary to have available as DSP plugin.

There were times DSP plugin processing was used to off-load the CPU because a computer couldn't handle a mix session containing lots of plugins otherwise.

Today DSP is still super relevant, because it omits the native buffer and roundtrip latency. Even the fastest computer on earth with a limiter on the master buss that has 5000 samples of plugin delay, will cause a session delay of 5000 samples -added to the native playbackbuffer- .
AAX-DSP plugins like eq's , compressors, guitar amps are widely available, updated to silicon native as well, and those kind of plugins actually make sense to have available during tracking with DSP. To give performers a 'zero latency' recording experience.

[JFreak]

Let's see how slow death AAXDSP will have. My guess is as long as there are S6L consoles in working condition there will also be AAXDSP plugins.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by RobertDorn

I'm not surprised that DSP plugins aren't released as frequent as native plugins. A lot of new plugins nowadays can do quite some complex things, that might be too heavy to put on a dsp chip, but at the same time those kind of plugins are completely unnecessary to have available as DSP plugin.

There were times DSP plugin processing was used to off-load the CPU because a computer couldn't handle a mix session containing lots of plugins otherwise.

Today DSP is still super relevant, because it omits the native buffer and roundtrip latency. Even the fastest computer on earth with a limiter on the master buss that has 5000 samples of plugin delay, will cause a session delay of 5000 samples -added to the native playbackbuffer- .
AAX-DSP plugins like eq's , compressors, guitar amps are widely available, updated to silicon native as well, and those kind of plugins actually make sense to have available during tracking with DSP. To give performers a 'zero latency' recording experience.

That makes zero sense. Every AAX-DSP plugin has higher inherent latency than their native counterpart. If there is a native plugin on the master with 5000 samples of latency, the solution is exactly the same for both HDX and Native - the plugin gets bypassed to achieve useable RTL.

I don't necessarily think HDX is dying, but its use case is very much being pushed out towards the margins. That is why Avid introduced the Hybrid engine. That is why Avid is selling TB3 cards. That is why Avid has increased the coreaudio limit to something only achievable through a theoretical HDX4 system.

I loved my time on HD3 Accel and HDX, but putting a HDX card in my system now only serves the purpose of reducing the live tracking capabilities of my system. Such is the reality of 2023 computer speeds meeting 2011 DSP processing. Plenty of people still swear tooth and nail that HDX is a requirement, but the degree of misnomers they spread about it almost always shows they are still using computers just as old as HDX... or have never actually measured RTL at all.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by LDS

That makes zero sense.

Yes it does make sense.

Back in the days of DSP being necessary for realtime processing, we had 256 native playback buffer in addition to AD/DA latency, which in real world meant about 350 sample latency @48kHz (or about 7ms if that makes more sense -- and those HD system's low latency was praised as superfast).

CPU was horrible two decades ago. Nobody cared about latency so long as the processing could be done realtime. Status Quo was processing offline. Anyone still remember 10-card DSP farms in a 13-slot chassis? It was only little over 20 years ago.

[LDS]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Yes it does make sense.

Back in the days of DSP being necessary for realtime processing, we had 256 native playback buffer in addition to AD/DA latency, which in real world meant about 350 sample latency @48kHz (or about 7ms if that makes more sense -- and those HD system's low latency was praised as superfast).

CPU was horrible two decades ago. Nobody cared about latency so long as the processing could be done realtime. Status Quo was processing offline. Anyone still remember 10-card DSP farms in a 13-slot chassis? It was only little over 20 years ago.

You haven't read what he has written.

"today DSP is still super relevant... a limiter on the master buss that has 5000 samples of plugin delay... will cause a session delay of 5000 samples..."

HDX does not omit latency. It replaces the native system buffer with DSP plugins that run higher inherent latency, starting at 33 samples for most stuff... going up to latency in the hundreds of samples per plugin instance. HDX can't run DSP plugins with 5000 samples of latency to begin with.

We may as well be saying "HDX is still super useful because it forces me to be prudent with plugin choices in my monitoring chain". That is what it is technically doing, but when you say it like that it opens the door for success in Native being... prudence with plugin selections...

It is the paradox of HDX in 2024.

[Eric Lambert]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Anyone still remember 10-card DSP farms in a 13-slot chassis? It was only little over 20 years ago.

I sure do, and our 13-slot was completely full. When ProTools first offered a Native option it was one of the best days of my life.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by LDS

HDX can't run DSP plugins with 5000 samples of latency to begin with.

Why would it have to?

5000 samples per 48000kHz is huge amount of latency and should be processed offline just like in the oldskool days. Maybe you can mix with it (assuming no latency problems on routing) but absolutely impossible to track.

48kHz means 48 samples per millisecond. 5000 sample latency means delay of 105 milliseconds. You do not even need to mention "comb filtering", not even "delay", 'cause that is in the "echo" category.

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[LDS]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Why would it have to?

5000 samples per 48000kHz is huge amount of latency and should be processed offline just like in the oldskool days. Maybe you can mix with it (assuming no latency problems on routing) but absolutely impossible to track.

48kHz means 48 samples per millisecond. 5000 sample latency means delay of 105 milliseconds. You do not even need to mention "comb filtering", not even "delay", 'cause that is in the "echo" category.

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Are you drunk, Janne? I'm not suggesting anyone should be using plugins with 5000 samples of latency. RobertDorn is. He is suggesting that DSP is still 'super relevent today' because it automatically bypasses those native plugins with 5000 of latency when you put channels into hybrid mode.

Let that sink in for a minute.

A $5000 DSP card...
that is still relevant...
because it bypasses a native plugin...


Perhaps I am just jaded, but bypassing plugins is something every user can do...

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by LDS

Are you drunk, Janne? I'm not suggesting anyone should be using plugins with 5000 samples of latency. RobertDorn is. He is suggesting that DSP is still 'super relevent today' because it automatically bypasses those native plugins with 5000 of latency when you put channels into hybrid mode.

Let that sink in for a minute.

A $5000 DSP card...
that is still relevant...
because it bypasses a native plugin...


Perhaps I am just jaded, but bypassing plugins is something every user can do...

Well to each his own. Some like deactivating multiple multiple plugins in a busy mix session, one by one, to do a quick overdub with some eq/dynamics processing on the track. And then activating them again afterwards, questioning yourself 'was this one de-activated already, or did I just de-active it to make an overdub?' (been there done that...)

Others like the hybrid engine with HDX where pro tools does all this automatically for you with a single click.