Mic placement for acoustic guitar/vocals ?

[The Electric Trombone]

All -

I am tracking vocals and acoustic guitar simultaneously for a project.

I was using an AKG C3000B for the vocal 7-10 inches from the vocalist, as well as an AKG C1000S 3-4 inches from the vocalist. Then an AKG C1000S on the acoustic at the 12th fret at a 45 degree angle.

For the most part I have been pleased with this arrangement, however, the C3000 is doing a fine job for the vocal on its own. So I was wanting to incorporate the extra C1000 on the acoustic to "fatten" up the tone a bit. I would like to continue using one at the 12th fret.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to placement of the 2nd C1000 ? In regards to where else on the acoustic could I mic in addition to the 12th fret ?

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !

I'm trying to get a "FAT", organic, acoustic and singer on a stool, "live-ish" sound.

Let the suggestions roll. . . . . . .

[The Electric Trombone]

I am hoping to experiment with this tonight. I'm hoping some Mic-head will come along and fix me up. . . .

......so. . . . .BUMP. . . . . . .

[hyp0static]

With the vocal mic so far away from the vocalist, you could be picking up a significant amount of guitar in the vocal mic as well (which you may be aware of and may be trying to do).

Also keep in mind the 3:1 "rule" when using multiple mics that are picking up the same things. As a rule of thumb, to avoid any bad phasing when all of the signals are combined, you want to keep the distance between each mic 3 times the distance from the mic to the source. So, with the vocal mic 7 - 10 inches from the vocalist (and a little further from the guitar), you want your other mics to be 21 - 30 inches from that mic.

The main "offender" here could be the vocal mic. You may want to move it in a bit more. On the other hand, that distance could be giving a decent "whole" sound of the vocalist and the guitar. But, adding a third mic which will also be on the guitar in a different spot could increase your chances of funky phasing. In which case, bring the vocal mic closer to the vocalist.

That out of the way, I have had luck with acoustic guitars with 1 mic on or around the 12th fret, and another near the sound hole, but pointed at the bridge.

Might be worth trying out.

Good luck!!

hyp0static

[lwilliam]

Tip: The Digi 1-band EQ has a phase reverse button on it and uses very little CPU. I use it all the time for the bottom snare mic just set flat.

[where02190]

I've had great success using a second mice behind the right side of the player about 2 feet from the guitar back. Some warm overtones from both the singer and guitar body.

[billbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by where02190:
...success using a second mice<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

where02190, the master of the new art of Rodent (mice) Recording Techniques!!!

Just kidding m'friend.

Actually, my most "tried and true" method of recording acoustic guitar is pointing a mic where the fretboard overlaps the body (i.e.- between the sound hole and neck). This is basicly the same as using the "neck" pickup on a electric for a good, full-bodied tone. I've always used this method as my first placement choice, and I usually don't change afterwards.

No matter what, avoid the sound hole. Unless you are trying to get a 'mush'-sounding guitar tone.

As for tracking vocal and guitar at the same time, with my guitar mic (explained above) already placed* (read on), I've had good luck with a weird device I made that actually works quite well.

Basicly I have a 4ft x 4ft piece of maple standing vertical with a Crown PZM boundry mic mounted in the middle, with the board mounted on vertical (carpeted) studs with the bottom placed at 'nipple' level (can be moved up or down for taller people, or "sitters"). A 3" gap seperates that from a 60 degree (downward) angled * (I have a Latin Percussion Mic Claw mounted underneath) 1 1/2" piece (with the "pyramid-style") of foam-covered plywood (which helps tremendously with seperation).

Not that I expect anyone to replicate such a behemoth (at least it has casters)!

[seandaly]

I got a very warm 12-string guitar sound once with a pair of SM57s, one near the soundhole and the other about five feet overhead. But the musician wasn't singing...

[lwilliam]

My $.02:

1. Get the 3000 a little closer to the singer's mouth. 6" or less (with a pop shield). Point it slightly UP (away from the guitar).

2. Make sure your original 1000 is pointing DOWN (away from the singer's mouth).

3. I've tried a 2nd mic between the bridge and the edge of the guitar pointing towards the sound hole. It gives the guitar a "woodier" or "woolier" sound, but you may like it for this performer/guitar combo. You can then spread the two 1000's a little (10:00/2:00 o'clock is a good start) in the mix for a wider sound.

4. Try reversing the phase on one of the two guitar mics. It will sound better one way or the other - and you'll know right away which is right. Otherwise, use the 3:1 rule mentioned above.

Any, all or none of these suggestions may help [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img].

[The Electric Trombone]

Thanks Folks !

I will be trying each suggestion tonight.

I will post my opinion of the results.

I'll try different angles on the C1000's one on the 12th fret pointed a bit downward with a 45 degree angle from the fret itself.

I will try the second C1000 "around" the bridge, angled toward the soundhole.

More than likely I'll experiment with my angles. I'll have to use the 3:1 rule as the C1000 don't have a switch to throw them out of phase.

I will also try the second C1000 over-head, I like that idea of that.

I do not mind a little bleed over into the other mics. I am blending them at the mixer and sending them to PTLE as a stereo track from the mixer.

Great suggestions ! I'm excited to get home from work and use them !

I'm doing this for a fairly qucik and dirty demo. Multiple tracks are not necessary for what I need to accomplish, however, a very woody organic sound is, as well as the best vocal sound I can milk out of the 3000 through MACKIE XDR pre's. . . I actually kind of dig the bleed into the 1000's as well as the bleed of the guitar into the 3000...... Kind of gives me a spacal effect.

Again, thanks VERY much for the suggestions.

I will be sure to post how it all goes. . .

regards,