Bye bye roomy dialog.

[garnoil]

Originally Posted by surroundsfx

Hmm, well actually it does work with musical signals rather well. You do need to adjust parameters to fit the signal, and there can be some learning curve involved as there are no threshold/ratio/release type parameters. Feel free to email me a snippet of that file and I'll make you a setting that works.

d(dot)goekdag(at)zynaptiq(dot)com

Cheers,
Denis

I am trying/testing this plugin and find that it can actually do a lot more than I expected (it really sounds great and produces much dryer dialogue). As other have mentioned, it does not sound like an expander/compressor so there are very little artifacts. I intentionally recorded a voice track, with me speaking about 15 feet from a Neumann mic set to OMNI in a fairly reverberant room. After trying the plugin for about 15 minutes I was able to produced a very dry voice compared to what I recorded... an amazing result. It it does minimize the "roominess" considerably. One thing that I found is that "setting it up" is not that easy, the parameters are somewhat difficult tweak to get the best result. Every room/situation would be different (I understand that) but I was wondering if there would be some "common" parameters settings to start from. I think it would be similar to the parameters of a reverb but in reverse. So, the factory settings could include for example: voice in medium room with 1.5 sec reverb (of course the setting would be designed to "remove" the roominess of a voice that has a 1/5 reverb tail) and so on???? would this be a possibility?

[surroundsfx]

I can relate to what you're saying WRT "setting it up". The parameters do do well-defined things, and their interaction is inherently logical --- but as the process works rather differently than most other processes out there, what the parameters do is also rather different, so it does take a little while to "get" what they do and how they interact. But once you do get the hang of it, it's really pretty straight-forward. One thing that does help is to read the parameter descriptions in the manual (not saying you didn't, just trying to put as many pointers as possible into this post).


Here's a quick how-to that will get you going. The procedure will of course have to be varied depending on signal, but it should give you an idea of what is what.

For removing reverb:

First, load the default setting. Set FOCUS to maximum, and set Transient Thresh all the way to the right (so it's not actually bypassing any transients). Also, set REFRACT and PRESENCE to minimum. This will result in some artifacting/bubbling for now (essentially, you're telling the algorithm to be strict and to err on the side of removing too much), but it helps tuning the other parameters by making the processing as obvious as possible.

Adjust ADAPTATION until the release slope of the visual representation of that parameter in the display matches the release slope of the input signal display. This way, you are getting a good approximation of the reverb length that you want to be removing. if you set this too low, you will hear some reverb "fading up" shortly before the onset of a new sound, sort of like compressor pumping. If you set this too high, you will start hearing parts of the sounds you wish to retain being partially removed as the algorithm will try to find reverb where it has already gone, and grabs the "next best thing".

Now activate TRANSIENT SOLO and adjust the threshold slider until you hear only the short transients coming through, but no initial reflections or sustain phase of the signal. De-activate the SOLO again. This procedure basically bypasses processing on transients to allow more drastic de-reverberation while keeping the signal crisp. Just make sure you don't let through any reflections here.

Next, slowly raise REFRACT and PRESENCE until artifacts are gone. If the signal you're working has too much reverb left when you reach the "no artifacts" range for REFRACT and PRESENCE, either try increasing LOCALIZE (which may require to also raise REFRACT and PRESENCE a little more), or try lowering LOCALIZE (which may also allow lowering REFRACT and PRESENCE).

Once you're happy, adjust FOCUS to the desired de-reverberation amount. please note that setting this to 99% instead of 100% can have a huge impact on the perceived sound....perceptively, "no reverb" is a fundamentally different experience to "nearly no reverb"! So if you find the result of full FOCUS to be somewhat artificial sounding, lowering this just slightly can potentially make it all good.

If you're not finding a sweet spot, try setting FOCUS to the center position and use the FOCUS BIAS sliders to increase or decrease FOCUS just at the frequencies where the reverb is getting in the way most. The BIAS sliders are basically offsets to the FOCUS control, frequency dependently. If FOCUS is at 50% (which corresponds to the unprocessed input signal), the sliders effectively cover the entire range from reverb-only to direct-only. As with a graphic EQ (which this isn't!!), if you lower/raise one band a lot, it may be beneficial to "smoothe the curve" by also adjusting the adjacent bands. Conversely, it can be interesting to accentuate or de-accentuate specific components of complex signals like wallas/busy backdrops by deliberately NOT using a "smooth curve" setting for the sliders.

In general, try having LOCALIZE as low as possible while still removing enough reverb (but as high as needed), REFRACT and PRESENCE as high as needed to remove unwanted artifacts (but as low as possible to remove as much reverb as possible), and ADAPTATION at a value that matches the reverb contained in your signal.

For removing direct signal:

For this application, you will want to have LOCALIZE set to maximum most of the time. Set FOCUS to minimum, set Transient Threshold all the way to the right. Set REFRACT and PRESENCE to higher values for a darker result with less signal left over, or to lower values for brighter reverb with more "foreground" components left.

For up-mixing stereo to quad:

Follow the de-reverberation strategy as outlined above for the front channels, and select "I/O Diff" for the rears...this will move whatever you're removing to the rear channels. If the absolute level of the rears is relevant (if you're anticipating fold-down to stereo that you want to sound exactly like the original stereo), make sure you do not use the transient bypass function, and set the FOCUS control to max for the front and min for the rear (and do not activate I/O Diff for the rears). Adjust the amount of transients in the front versus in the rear using the REFRACT and PRESENCE controls.

While all this just scratches the surface and you'll probably still need to experiment a little for every source, I think that by the time you've tried these suggestions you'll have some sort of feel for how the parameters interact.

As to more specifically tailored presets....well, sure, we can do that, but how often do you really have an exact 1.5 seconds of reverb, with the exact frequency response that's in the preset, with the exact miking and voice that combine to warrant a specific value for LOCALIZE etc. I guess what I'm saying is that my gut feeling tells me that this wouldn't really help a lot in practice, but we're happy to make whatever presets are requested for the next update.

And as mentioned above, if there's a particular file you're having problems with, please feel free to email us a snippet and I'll have a look at what setting might work best.

Cheers,
Denis

[garnoil]

Thanks for the extra input. I will buy this plug today because not only because what it can do but also because I appreciate a developer that takes the time and effort to connect with its users.

...reaching for the credit card right now!

G

[Vedat]

Originally Posted by surroundsfx

*grin* Actually, the pressure wasn't needed as AAX was on the roadmap anyway

Yeah, but it did take some pressure for the RTAS.

I hope you get many returns, it is a very useful plugin that could be a staple in post production.

[MIKEROPHONICS]

I will demo this. Very interested. I also too like developers who are connected with their users - hence my love for Cedar and Nugen

Cheers

[garnoil]

Originally Posted by MIKEROPHONICS

I will demo this. Very interested. I also too like developers who are connected with their users - hence my love for Cedar and Nugen

Cheers

I also use CEDAR and Nugen (may be our work flows are similar). So far, Unveil appears to be a fantastic addition for dialogue chain. I was using along with the DNS, the combination is fantastic. It does not have Audiosuite preview which forces you to use (and make the setting) as RTAS and then save that setting and process as Audiosuite. It is also very well priced especially for being the first plugin that appears to do, what up to now was impossible.

[jrhager84]

Wow, what a novel concept! Buying for sure!

[Craig F]

now if it could also make an IR for the ADR so the 2 could meat nicely in the middle

[mgoorevich]

Originally Posted by Craig F

now if it could also make an IR for the ADR so the 2 could meat nicely in the middle

...and complete automatically the whole mix while I am on launch.

[digidesigner]

Wondering how long it will take for Waves to rip this off