Acoustic Gtr Mics & Techniques???

[MMazurek]

Been playin w/my little Martin D-1 trying to get that GREAT guitar sound (to record into a gtr/vox mix).

Been playin with Sure SM81's, 414's, Oktava 012's. Tryin a few different pre/Eq's, and then into Distressors.

Either I CAN get the sound I want and haven't found it yet (technique advice needed), or there's an ULTIMATE mic set I MUST HAVE to do this.

Or of course both.

Trying out the little Oktava's for a week. Was 'talked out of' trying the Neumann KM184's.
Earthworks maybe? Schoepp's? B&K(DPA) too much $$$ for now.

[dBHEAD]

I've always found it hard to get the acoustic sound I want with a single mic. Last Spring I had a project which had a very significant acoustic guitar element. I ended up using a Beyer MC740 AND an AKG 414. I recorded each on a different track and then blended until I got the sound I wanted. The MC 740 was on axis (pointed right at the hole, about 10 inches away); the 414 was off-axis, about the same distance. Keeping the mics at the same distance usually helps prevent phasing problems because the wave peaks reach both mics at about the same time.

Why not try an SM81 with a 414? You've already got the mics. Also, if you record two tracks like that and still can't quite get the blend you want, you can always EQ, bounce the track with the EQ applied, pull it into your session on a THIRD track and add it back in. You'd need to delay your first two tracks by a few samples (I can't remember how many, but it's in the manual) to avoid phasing, but it's another way to approach it.

[sidereal]

Has anyone tried using a quality acoustic pickup in addition to direct miking with one or two mics. Maybe silly, but I'm wondering if the direct input, plus miking will provide some added presence.

I'm about to start on an acoustic singer/songwriter in a couple weeks, so I'm curious.

[vtone]

I just recorded a singer-songwriter and got a great sound using a Soundelux U99 with Royer pop filter for vocals and a 414 about 8 inches off axis from the soundhole. The vocals went through a Fearn mic pre and the guitar through a Neve 1272. Compressed with a pair of Distressors, the vocals in Opto mode and guitar in 6:1. All in mono, except for a touch of stereo reverb. Output through a Crane Song HEDD and L1 straight to MasterList CD. Quick setup, and sounds great. The end result was sweet and very easy on the ears. A nice change from those 48 track sessions!

[Ask Otis]

I have recorded around 100 different acoustic guitars over the last 5 years. No matter what mic I used I always get the best results by PROPER PLACEMENT of the mic.

Try this...while the guitarist is playing stick one ear towards the guitar. Move around a little. Up and down and close and far. You will find a point that sounds good. Where all the overtones and resonance of the instrument fully develop and "mix" in the air. Put the mic there. 9 out of 10 times it will sound great no matter the mic.

Having said that, I almost always use the neuman km84 or 140 even when given the choice of every mic ever made, and believe me , I tried them all!

Good Luck...and remember, the sound is in the live room not the control room.

[Jules]

In Mix magazine a million seller country engineer shared his accoustic secret, I was lucky enough to be working in a studio that had the gear required, I tried it, I was amazing...

Tools needed.

Old "pencil" valve NEUMANN MIC (Number??? - it's v skinney)
SSl (or Alan Smart) compressor set on 'auto release'

Those Neumanns aint so pricey (no one likes em) and the Alan Smart is, well pricey, but such a classic Mix Buss compressor, it's a good thing to have around... (I USED IT ON CYMBALS TODAY - AMAZING)

SCUSE CAPS!!!



Jules

[MMazurek]

Hey Jules, that's the second application you advised I use an Alan Smart (SSL) compressor. (We discussed it for drum overheads before) ...guess I may cough up the cash if they're that nice. The Distressors sound real nice on acoustic guitar also. (really need another comp for drums though)

One of my problems I already fixed. Ask Otis was right. MIC PLACEMENT. I readjusted the mic positions and found a few sweet spots. In the process, found out my leakage into a vocal mic altered my sound a little (adjusted the vocal mic). Played with gain & mic position and found a REALLY nice sound with two SM81's. (and also a 414/SM81 combo)

Thx for all the help. It would have been frustrating once again to blow money on gear that I didn't really need. (OK not THAT frustrating)

[Barnabas]

>Has anyone tried using a quality acoustic
>pickup in addition to direct miking with one
>or two mics. Maybe silly, but I'm wondering
>if the direct input, plus miking will
>provide some added presence.

This can work, but I've never really heard a guitar pick up that I really liked. I use two mics, like others have described.

Mic position is important. Use the Ear method "Ask Otis" described.

Keeping the guitar player from moving around has always frustrated me. Duct tape usually keeps them seated, but they keep moving the guitar around.

------------------
Chris Droessler
www.barnabas.com Barnabas MultiMedia

[po hambo]

Two mics is a good technique but in general don't point either at the soundhole. One pointing to the other side of the bridge from the strings is a good position if you only have one mic. I find omni mics best and fairly close (6 inches). Using your ear near the guitar is good to find the "sweet spots" for that particular guitar. The biggest problem is the guitarist moving around (not so much a problem if they are seated). A bad acoustic guitar is almost impossible to make sound good.

[Jules]

MM phone a vintage dealer describe my pencil neumann sugestion, ask em how much they go for, then get oen, it can double as a vocal mic and would be "A VALVE MIC" for your studio.
Get the SSL you and your drummers will not be disapointed, it makes cymbals hits sustain a luxurious length of time...
Ah gear, we must have more...

Jules