How do I pump up the volume/level of my session without clipping master fader ?

[chrisdee]

I wonder how I can fatten up the sound of my sessions and pump up the volume/level of my sessions without getting cliping on my master fader track. Should a alsways avound clipping on the master fader meter, or is it ok to have some clipping on this track, just so I get the volume/level higher ?

I listen to commercial pop music and then to my music, in comparison my sessions sounds a bit flat and the volume is usually much lower.
The level/volum and "stereo width" of commercial music sounds much richer and "fatter" than my flat sessions. I dont have problems with the sound quality thow, just that it sound a bit weak compared to what I hear on the radio and itunes.


How do I pump things up ?

[daeron80]

Clipping on the master fader is bad. In LE, the easiest solution is to simply turn down the master fader until the reds go away. It seems to give the same result as turning down all the audio tracks, which is theoretically the correct way but takes more time and care.

If your mixes sound good, the best way to get more volume is to turn up the volume knob on your player. Commercial music today is sacrificing musicality for digital volume. Very bad decision. See the articles here:
http://www.digido.com/media/articles-and-demos.html
and google "loudness wars" and such.

But if you must follow suit, you can make the sacrifice with a brick wall limiter like Massey L2007, Digidesign Maxim, Waves L3, and many more. Ozone and McDSP are said to have a "good" ones, too.

[flommer]

You can also bounce to a stereo file being conservative about your peaks (no red) then open the stereo file and normalize at 99.9%. It just kind of maximizes what is already there without "effecting" the audio..

If your peaks were always, for example, 3-4 db below clipping, then normalizing will give you those 3-4 db back without having to worry about clipping and without compressing or limiting the crap out of things and reducing your dynamic range. Note that if your peaks are already just below clipping, normalizing won't get you much volume.. A little light limiting might just trim the worst peaks and get you those few db back after normalizing...

[JrummerJ]

I usually run all my mixes through the Massey L2007, but I don't slam them and lose dynamics. Just bumpr em up to near 0db with only the loudest spikes being limited.

Works well, and is dead easy to use.........and free if you don't need the options that purchasing it gets you.

J

[daeron80]

BTW, I did a test in which I took an audio-track-only mix I was happy with and rammed the living daylights out of it. I put Trim plug-ins set to +12 dB as the last two inserts on each track, including the master. Then I pulled the master down by 48 dB (the same amount by which everything was now boosted) and bounced.

That means that plug-ins were being "clipped" on every track, every audio track was "clipping," and the mix bus was being "clipped." I then did the "null test" - put the original mix and the "clipped" mix side by side in a new session and flipped the polarity of one of them. The result was dead silence. Looking at it on a bit scope, there was a little activity in the first 7 bits. But it was less noise than is inherent in the 002's output amps, so it was completely inaudible on my system. The two mixes were, for all practical purposes, identical.

Weird, huh? So, don't feel bad about using the master fader as an easy solution to clipping. It doesn't appear to hurt a thing to overdrive the mix bus and pull down the master. Not sure if TDM would give the same results, though, since it uses fixed math instead of floating. But LE handles it fine.

[robo6675]

Ok maybe I'm missing the point of doing a test like that....of course it would be dead silent because the mixes are complete 180 out of phase. This would of happened regardless if those tracks were clipping out or not. I'd image a huge sonic difference though seeing the entire mix's dynamics are being completely cut.

Also I'd recommend pulling down everything else before touching the mix buss. Way better gain structure, especially in the digital world.

I'd also avoid normalizing. Just learn to load the mix buss properly. Don't sweat it if your mixes never pumping quite like ones your listening to that have been mastered properly through compressors you'll never be able to recreate in the box. In the end, if it sounds good, it sounds good. Loudness should ever be your ultimate priority.

[Toe]

Like robo6675 said, you don't need to get your session voulume higher, just get your mix nice leaving some headroom, bounce, then get it mastered if you want to compete with the sonic characteristics of commercial pop music.
But there are loads of good software options to do some mastering yourself.
You should focus on getting the best mix in your session, overall loudness not being a factor.

[barstool719]

Originally Posted by robo6675

Also I'd recommend pulling down everything else before touching the mix buss. Way better gain structure, especially in the digital world.

+1

i always create an "all tracks" group in every session i do. when im happy with the mix, i pull everything down. (say something like -12dB to -9dB), put analog tape sim, buss compressor, and a mastering limiter on the master. (the master fader always stays at zero, i never ever touch it) i dont slam the compressor or limiter very hard at all, just enough to get the volume up without squashing everything.

[accession]

Originally Posted by daeron80

I put the original mix and the "clipped" mix side by side in a new session and flipped the polarity of one of them.

Originally Posted by robo6675

Ok maybe I'm missing the point of doing a test like that....of course it would be dead silent because the mixes are complete 180 out of phase. This would of happened regardless if those tracks were clipping out or not.

He said he compared the 'original' and 'clipped' mixes, with the phase-flipped on one of them.

Rather he didn't compare 'original' vs 'original flipped 180 degrees' and/or 'clipped' vs 'clipped flipped 180 degrees' which would have revealed nothing, as you say.

So it's a fair comparison, and an interesting one. Though were the tracks actually clipping despite the +12dB gain plugs inserted.

[daeron80]

Having learned my trade on 2" tape and analog boards, I'm used to working the way rob6675 and barstool719 described. It's good and commendable engineering practice. It goes against every technical neuron in my brain to clip first and pull down later. But if it works...

One point is, no clipping actually occurred despite multiple stages of red lights. That's bizarre, and I wish I understood the reason for it. The other point is, it made no discernible sonic difference (that I know of so far). If two methods give the same result, can one really be called wrong? Is one gain structure better than the other if the two sound the same?

I'm being intentionally a little provocative with this, I admit. I'm hoping that various users will experiment and test and report back and/or release their work in the marketplace, and we'll come out the other end with a more complete understanding of what mix levels mean in the LE world.