LE Track Limit Feedback

[Windshore]

I'm curious why Digi hasn't felt more pressure to increase their arbitrary 32 voice limit on PT LE software? Are users satisfied with being limited to 32 tracks when modern computers can handle HUNDREDS of tracks? I understand Digi doesn't want to increase the track count if they don't have to... they don't want LE to compete with HD systems, but I don't understand why users aren't banging down the doors for more performance?

[Chris Cavell]

b/c the majority of mixes don't require 32+ tracks

[asa]

I agree with Chris. With both my TDM and LE systems I dont generally have a need for more than 32 tracks, and in my experience having more tracks can quickly make your session a disaster. The ability to have tons of tracks in your session can often lead to excessive creation of tracks and take away from focusing on great takes and recording what is needed. There are some instances with Post and larger productions when it is nice to have all of the tracks, but for the most part I find my needs are met with 32 audio voices or less. If the Beatles can do it with 4 then we should be able to with 32, ok sorry for the played out reference to Beatle multi-tracking...

[Windshore]

I guess you guys aren't using a lot of live players...? I often end up with track counts closer to 40. Typically, 8 tracks for kit, 2-3 stereo guitar, 3 stereo keys, 8 horn or vocal tracks (8 more if both horns and vocals) about 7 percussion (some stereo some mono) often additional loops for 1-3 stereo tracks, 1 bass. With modern vocal production often using 8-12 tracks, I'd think track counts would be pretty high for most of us, unless you're pre-mixing tracks, or not using live drums and percussion. It's puzzling that you might think that more is not better.... It is only a matter of removing a limitation arbitrarily imposed on the software. ...of course we could all record to 4 tracks, but the "sound" of contemporary production today tends to be very layered. Perhaps the LE software really is well targeted to smaller production environments, and I shouldn't expect anything more from it...

[Chris Cavell]

I guess you guys aren't using a lot of live players...?

I frequently record swing bands and orchestras live with 18 tracks or less...

It's puzzling that you might think that more is not better....

Well, that's not what we said...I'd prefer at least 24 i/o, but most engineers seem to agree that 32+ tracks is usually enough and more is not necessary in most cases.

[PhiDelta308]

Just did a chamber ensemble/choir with 2 tracks. When I assisted during a recording of Handel's Messiah, with a full symphony orchestra, pipe organ, and chorus, we did it with two tracks. So large ensemble and live don't necesarily equal large track counts.

The 32 track limitation is perhaps somewhat arbitrary. They obviously have to place some limitations on LE so that people will buy into TDM. Do a search on DaveC test results. A lot of people aren't even getting up to 32 tracks. And you can do more than 32 tracks, it's just that you can only have 32 active at a time. So if you want more with LE, all you have to do is get creative with submixing.

-Chris

[Slim Shady]

Windshore, looking at your tracking list, you should be using another software/hardware combo if you're going to track that way. There's nothing wrong with it, but you've chosen a system that can't handle it - PTLE is known to be limited to 32 tracks, it's not a hidden 'gotcha' so most people are aware of that fact and work with/around it. There's lots of things you can do to your tracking setup work for you though if you stick with PTLE - for example... 8 horn tracks? Once you record them, just bounce them down to a stereo pair. Same goes with backing vocal tracks. Stereo guitar tracks? Not sure what's up with that, are you using a POD or something? I don't know anyone that records guitar in stereo, although using another 'room' mic is sometimes employed to acheive a bigger sound or add space - however with your massive track list there's probably not any room for that in the mix, so don't bother recording it.

it is only a matter of removing a limitation arbitrarily imposed on the software

I don't think the 32 track choice was arbitrary, I think they decided on that number for a reason. Initially PTLE was only 24 tracks but bumped to 32 a few years back and they added the 'inactive track' feature which makes it much easier to work with the 32 limit.

BTW I mostly only work with live players, and do pretty heavy production, but rarely get up to 32 tracks, even with 8 - 9 tracks for drum kit. If I actually hit the 32 limit, I start submixing things that I mentioned before (bgvox, pads, rhythm guitars) and it works out fine. If I know before hand that it's going to be a big session, then I rent out a TDM/HD studio for that project, they can handle more than 32 tracks pretty well

[Seeee]

I frequently use more than 32 tracks on my TDM system and the thought of LE running 40 track sessions is a joke till they optimize the DSP in LE.

and I hate sub mixing (commiting).

[Boombatty]

I heard that in the making of one of Michael Jacksons classic albums (Bad, Thriller? I dunno... not a fan) 6 24tk Studers were running.

[Giles Reaves]

If the Beatles can do it with 4 then we should be able to with 32, ok sorry for the played out reference to Beatle multi-tracking...

Yes, and they submixed and bounced too, a skill that is sadly missing from many of today's recording engineers. With Pro Tools, if you have to submix, it's SO uncommital (cause you can always recall the session and remix your submix). Those of us who's first multitrack experience was a 4 track didn't even have that, but we submixed and got good at it!

If you know how to mix, you already know how to submix. And with undo and nondestructive tools, it's easier than ever.
In fact, it even makes it easier to mix (assuming you do proper submixes)!

That being said, it seems that on most pop/rock projects I always seem to end up with between 24 and 40 tracks (usually 33!). Luckly I do all that work on TDM systems.