CAN A DRUM MACHINE SOUND REAL?

[TCN]

I AM CURRENTLY MAKING THE CONVERSION FROM ANALOG TO DIGITAL. DBX AUDIO TAPE TO DIGI-001, ACOUSTIC DRUMS TO ELECTRONIC. THE SOUND I'M TRYING TO ACHIEVE IS RELATED TO FILTER'S "TITLE OF RECORD" AND NIN "THE FRAGILE". BOTH INCORPORATE THE USE OF DIGITAAL DRUM SOUNDS. I HAVE AN OLD SR-16 DRUM MACHINE FROM HIGH SCHOOL THAT I USED FOR WRITING PURPOSES. HOWEVER, WITHOUT THE USE OF MAJIC I DON'T THINK I CAN USE IT TO GET THIS INDUSTRIAL ROCK DRUM SOUD I'M LOOKING FOR. IS THE TRICK IN THE DRUM MACHINE, OR HOW YOU PROCESS THE SIGNAL? SOS,
WHAT DO I NEED?!?!

[Kickin.da.speaker]

hmmm, I think you can get pretty close. my songs are a good example of exactly what you describe. Except I don't use the SR 16 but the drum sounds on my Kurzweil, but the trick is to learn how to use your plug-ins, disto, compressions and be creative with the sounds!!!

Then, be creative with the timing. Getting further away from a perfect timing give you a more human feel. Experience with it! Play some drums live. I like to have my kick quantized, and play the hi hat live, for example...

Good luck!

------------------
David.

6am eternal

[TCN]

DAVE,
THANKS FOR THE FOR THE VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN THE SR-16. SINCE MY USE OF IT HAS BEEN LIMITED TO BASIC BEATS TO MAKE ROUGH DEMOS FOR WRITING PURPOSES, I'LL TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION OF CREATIVELY APPLYING EFFECTS AND REAL TIME HI HAT.
BY THE WAY, I DIG YOUR SOUND, I CHECKED OUT THE FIRST TUNE YOU HAD LISTED. SWEET, THATS PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT I'M GOING FOR. WHAT I'VE WRITTEN UP UNTIL NOW IS PRETTY MELLOW, SOMETHING I HOPE TO AGGRIVATE. I'VE GOT SOME WORK AHEAD OF ME, NEW TO COMPUTERS AND SYNTHS. USED TO DRUM, BASS, GUITAR, VOCALS. I'LL SEND YOU SOMETHING
WHEN THINGS GET ROLLING, LATE,
THOMAS

[TCN]

DAVE,
THANKS FOR THE FOR THE VOTE OF CONFIDENCE IN THE SR-16. SINCE MY USE OF IT HAS BEEN LIMITED TO BASIC BEATS TO MAKE ROUGH DEMOS FOR WRITING PURPOSES, I'LL TAKE YOUR SUGGESTION OF CREATIVELY APPLYING EFFECTS AND REAL TIME HI HAT.
BY THE WAY, I DIG YOUR SOUND, I CHECKED OUT THE FIRST TUNE YOU HAD LISTED. SWEET, THATS PRETTY CLOSE TO WHAT I'M GOING FOR. WHAT I'VE WRITTEN UP UNTIL NOW IS PRETTY MELLOW, SOMETHING I HOPE TO AGGRIVATE. I'VE GOT SOME WORK AHEAD OF ME, NEW TO COMPUTERS AND SYNTHS. USED TO DRUM, BASS, GUITAR, VOCALS. I'LL SEND YOU SOMETHING
WHEN THINGS GET ROLLING, LATE,
THOMAS

[TCN]

DIDN'T MEAN TO DUPLICATE THAT. AS I SAID I'M NEW TO COMPUTERS, KIND OF A THROWBACK, DON'T THINK I WAS GETTING IMPATIENT, CHOW,

[augiealexander]

Hey TCN,
I think I've got something for you.
Lots of cats adjust the timing to give a drum machine human feel. I also adjust the PITCH of the drums for a more realistic effect.

CHECK IT OUT.

Everytime you hit a snare drum it's pitch is a bit different. especially if you hit it harder or softer. harder may be higher in pitch. softer, lower. Now I'm not talking about any drastic pitch adjustments. Usually Keyboards are setup with a Kick on the bottom C and a snare on the D. What I do is assign the same kick to C, D,E and F and the same snare to G,A B and C. then I slightly adjust the pitch. I can't even really hear much of a difference. BUT IT's THERE. This technique will give you some added real qualities you may be looking for. I rarely use sampled cymbols. Hi-hats maybe. I love that filter album. Unfortunately, it sounds to me like the band didn't even have too much to do with it's quality. I heard they suck live. too bad.

aa

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augiealexander.com

[dreeam]

YES IT CAN ALL MY TRACKS USE THE MPC 2000
ITS SOUNDS JUST LIKE A DRUMMER WELL IF YOU GOT THE RIGHT SAMPLE LOOKS THERES 2 THINGS YOU CAN DO IF YOU GOT A SAMPLER SAMEL A REAL SNARE AND KICK WHIT IT AND USE THEM IF NOT
RUN THE STUFF YOU GOT IN A GUITAR AMP AND
PUT A MIC IN IT

[TCN]

THESE ARE ALL GREAT SUGGESTIONS, THANKS.

HEY AUGIE, HOW DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT FILTER NOT HAVING MUCH TO DO WITH THE SOUND OF THEIR ALBUM? I WAS TALKING WITH SOMEONE WHO HELPED MAKE THE ALBUM (LIVING IN CHICAGO) AND HE SAID THEY PRODUCED THE ALBUM THEMSELVES USING PRO TOOLS. NEVER SEEN THEM LIVE THOUGH.

[Conscious Structure]

TCN,

Firstly:
NEVER GET RID OF ANALOG GEAR! It will always come in handy somewhere! No matter how crappy it seems.

Now my main point:
Nine Inch Nails is a worthy band to try to emulate, but don't copy their style. Here's why NIN is good: because they expiriment. I've been involved in so called "industrial" music for quite a while now, (I personally don't care to be adressed as that genre though) and most of the bands in that genre are known for one thing: expirimentation.

Their drums sound weird because they're trying to do something different.

One thing I can tell you though, a crappy drum machine will get you nowhere. What you really need if you want to create odd drums like that is a sampler with multiple outputs. This will allow you to multitrack your drums like a drummer would. Also, I have to say, I like to use real drums. Filter and NIN use real drums too. Or percussion of some sort. Even if you bang on metal pipes and smash rocks like Einsturzende Neubuaten (a band I recomend if you're looking to move into the genre), you can get very cool sounds, ones that a little drum machine couldn't ever. Listening to old industrial and expirimental groups will help you understand the origin and evolution of the different sounds in the genre. E-mail me if you'd like a list of recommendations.

I use a combination of several things. Vintage analog drum machines where the sound can be tweaked with filters, multichannel samplers, real drums, found sounds and Neubauten style percussion.
(you can listen at www.mp3.com/consciousstructure )

This is sort of what NIN and Filter do too. They uses a variety of sounds and instruments.

Also, you can record real drums, and use programs like Propellerheads ReCycle to turn real drums into breakbeats. This also works well with found sounds and industrial percussion.

Weird EQ, compression and filter settings help also, as well as psychoacoustical treatments. Another thing that works well is plugins like lo-fi, sci-fi, etc. Also, any drum sound you create and be filtered or processed through any variety of analog equipment, anything from vocoders to ring modulators. One of the tricks is to keep sounds sounding dirty but also to maintain high production standards. I have songs where the ugliest drums sound beautiful.

Keep in mind one other thing. Most people in the genre were not out to become zillionaire rock stars. A few of them got lucky, but if you look at the majority of bands in the genre, you may notice that they did not have a top 40 single.

Good luck with your music. I do freelance work if you ever need any expirimental production.


------------------
Dave Belazis
Conscious Productions
Conscious Studios

[This message has been edited by Conscious Structure (edited May 07, 2001).]

[augiealexander]

TCN , You may know more about the filter album. That was just me talking out of my asss. I'm not going to pull out the CD and look at the production credit but I think I would have remembered if it was the band that produced it. Thay were terrible live. That dosen't mean their not studio wizes. I'm not a fan of ther othe CD Short bus. But damn, Title Of Record is a great production no matter who did it!