Deliver Mix Sessions to platforms Amazon / Netflix / ...

[nednednerb]

Originally Posted by evanbenjamin

... I don’t think any sfx libraries care about this at all..

I don’t get the concern. I’m trying to understand it, but I don’t.... The only thing I’m precious about is between my ears. And my ears.

Your assumption isn't the same as going to court. These things are tested in court, if at all, not by opinions.

And hear this: going to court and proving you are innocent still costs money!!

That is my consistent point, a considerable risk arises, that's it.

Chances are no repercussions does not mean, "it doesn't matter conceivably"

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[Kasper]

evanbenjamin,

If you decide to give raw SFX files away, you have indeed broken the EULA.
That is a fact.
What you believe, or what you feel is or isn't IP that you deem to have any value, is only your opinion. Which you are entitled to, but that doesn't change the fact that you are wrong.


And you are wrong about the "company in Germany" too.
That's exactly why I don't give away the sessions or raw files. I want to be the one doing the M&Es and revisions - - this is the entire point - - this is what makes it valuable.


kasper

[dr sound]

Evan,
Here is why you are wrong:
I don't turn over a session because I have an NDA with many Plug In Developers and Designers. I am using Proprietary Plug Ins and processes in my mix. I can guarantee you have and use some of them in your chain.
My version may not necessarily work when the Plug In is released amd you buy it.
I always give my clients stems split out in Composite Mixes and individual stems such as Dialog, ADR, Group, BG's, Sound Design, Music etc in various layouts such as Atmos, 5.1, Stereo and mono.
If needed I can deliver a flattened session .
Why don't Studios come back to us to do any changes ?
Yes it is about money, plain and simple!

[evanbenjamin]

I’d say your situation is the exception that proves the rule. Anything involving an NDA is obviously not the usual situation.

So let’s say you were using all stock plugins, as I am. Would you still feel like there was something proprietary about your session?

And to Kasper-I’m already doing the M&Es. Although now Netflix has started doing them on their own, at least for this last series I mixed.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by EarHole

Also charged for the time to do it.

Now we are talking

[Kasper]

Originally Posted by evanbenjamin

(snip) Although now Netflix has started doing them on their own, at least for this last series I mixed.

And you are surprised by this?

What part of this are you seriously not comprehending?

At this point, you are just being obtuse, just taking the piss.

Enjoy your lack of revenue stream .......


kasper

[evanbenjamin]

Believe me sonny, I have no lack of revenue in my stream.

Seriously, that was not an option. They said they were doing that for all series going forward. I should amend that. I did the M&E, I did not do QC fixes in the M&E, which was fine with me. And they did not need my session to do that. Because they did it before I uploaded them.

[its2loud]

I’m kinda done with this thread.

I’ll walk away along with all of the intellectual property I can protect for as long as I can and when I can’t protect it anymore I’ll know exactly why.

[Schottlandru]

Originally Posted by evanbenjamin

I did the M&E, I did not do QC fixes in the M&E, which was fine with me. And they did not need my session to do that. Because they did it before I uploaded them.

Interesting discussion...
Evan, may I ask, you mention M&Es here, which I would believe many of us would not mind handing off (after all this often happens at bigger facilities too, that the big head mixers don't necessarily to all the deliverables downstream?).

But may I ask: How would you think of this if you fond out that a cheaper post house with a young engineer (maybe even in-house at Netflix/...) were hired to do the next season, based off of your template/mix session of the one you handed in? Maybe even with all the sound effects and edit work from the last team (buying all the libraries on the market takes the EULA issue out of the euqation, see below).

Regarding the EULAs, I'm on Kasper's view of things - the "toy" thing you mention Evan being one aspect, you are right there, but also the pure duplication/handing off of the sound files is another - that is also not allowed.
Actually a gray area might also be a sound supervisor getting a session from a freelance sound editor, with them having used their commercial libraries and handing them off to the supervisor, who does not own those... and continues working with that material... other story.


The score-session analogy seems great at first, however we need to remember - downstream work on a series usually only involves replacing a full cue/song, not having to edit the second bassoon track, because of a licensing or QC issue for foreign markets.


I like and also follow Marty's approach with creating several food-group-splits that would help further downstream with any fixes, cutdowns etc. (albeit on a far smaller scope than you Marty!)
But - this is creating MORE work and time on our end, i.e. actually higher cost, which this "hand it all over and we'll do it" request is trying to circumvent.

[evanbenjamin]

If I did lose a show to another mixer (which has happened, as has the reverse-part of the business) it’s for a variety of reasons. Financial, personal, whatever. Under no circumstances did any of us have each others templates before the production company jumped ship. In other words, I don’t think it’s germane. Give me Tom Fleischmans template and I’m still not getting called by Scorsese. In the same way, if I give someone else my template they’re not doing what I do. And vice versa. Clients come to us for a lot of reasons, but one reason they don’t come to is is our template.

I think this makes what we do almost mechanistic, in that if someone is equipped with my gear they can replace me. I don’t think they can. And I’m sure the same is true for you.

As for sfx, you may be on sounder footing, but it almost seems like a crime in name only. Who is harmed by it? It’s going into an archive that no one is going to access except for “break the glass”moments. It’s more like the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

But yeah, I’m mostly happy to just click send bc I want to do less unpaid work.