Volume levels again

[6969]

I just wanted to pose a couple of question for now about volume levels.

Is it going to be impossible for me to reach the same volume levels as a bought in the store commercial CD...with my DIGI 001 PT LE system?

Would my only option to increase my volume levels to that of a store bought CD be to buy a plug-in like MAXIM,or Wave?

I guess that would bring up another question now.

If my only option is to buy a plug-in to do the job,do those plug-ins suck out all of the dynamics?

Thanx
DJ DBOY

[Mark_Knecht]

DJ DBOY,
Hi. My experience so far is that most of the 'volume' you hear on a comercial CD comes from the fact that they've used more compression to get the overall level up without clipping.

In the RTAS environment, I think the best solution so far is Wave L2/LinMB fom the Masters Bundle. You can try them out for free to see how they work for you. Waves has a two week demo.

Good luck in your quest!

Cheers,
Mark

[Bastiaan]

www.waves.com .....

[Stone Knife]

I am a big fan of the Maxim...whack it across the master insert and all of a sudden, and with almost no effort, and no discernable artifacts because it reads ahead before it does anything, the mains output is 6+ dB hotter than it was. (Mabie more. Just watching the mixer's LED's it looks like 6 average dB's gained with the setting I cooked up in about 2 minutes one day...)

No clipping. Oh yes- it does dithering, at the same time too. This thing is amazing.

Another application is:
I use outboard compression on the way in, so once the vocal track's edited, ready for mixdown, it's Maxim time. I insert it to the vocal and bus that track to an open channel, bounce to track, and BabaBooey! It's hot w/no clips. Since I'm doing radio prods, the music and sound efx (usually already produced hot on CD) don't need boosting, the voice gets up and we're done.
It's almost too easy to use. Sounds great. They could've called it "Instant Loud"

[Recite]

About maximizing:

When I have normalized some files in PT and after that import it into Wavelab the level in Wavelab can be further normalized.

How come?! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

I dosn't seem to me that the normalize level in PT gets the 0 db point at all.

[DMP]

You may already know this, but the LR meter on the master fader in ProTools is deceptive as the sound won't distort until way over 0db. So if you mix so that it doesn't go into the red, regardless of compression or anything else, you'll find it very quiet. I have managed to get good volume levels without buying a mastering plugin just by compressing the master fader and upping the volume by about +4db (so that it is quite alot in the red). I kept upping until I heard distortion and then backed off a bit. This works, but a mastering plugin would make this easier.

Dan

[Jaleo]

I agree with Dan. I regularly run audio channels and master faders into the red with no distortion at all. It seems that the 0 dB setting in PTLE is not calibrated to true 0 dB. This is true in other programs as well. Just listen carefully to your mixes at both low and high levels as you set your master fader for the final mix for audio distortion. What you hear seems to be what you get. I get very hot, pro level masters just using the RTAS plugins provided with PTLE...of course it could be easier with Waves...more bucks, more bucks, more bucks....

[Park Seward]

According to Digi, the meters in PT LE turn red after three consecutive "overs". You are distorting the waveform but it may not be audible depending on the program material.

[Jaleo]

Park,

Interesting info, but it sure leaves a few questions to be answered by Digidesign:

1. What constitutes 3 CONSECUTIVE "overs"
2. Why does it take 3 to distort? (I find this hard to believe) Shouldn't material distort at a + level over 0 dB in all cases?
3. Why did Digidesign design it this way? is there some technical advantage?
IMHO it is better to know exactly where the levels stand instead of guessing or through a tedious effort of trial and error.

Any comments Digi?

[Park Seward]

Of course one over will distort but will be hard to hear. They just selected three consecutive overs to light the light. That is three samples in a row that exceed 0 dBFS. They could have picked any number.

from a post by Dave Lebolt:

" What Do the Meters Tell Me in Pro Tools? Are They Peak Reading? Are They Accurate?

The meters are peak reading, and as someone said earlier they count “consecutive overs” (just a few) to determine if a clip has occurred. If you’re close enough to clipping so that the meter is occasionally lighting the clip indicator, back off… no need to push right to the edge. But you don’t have to worry whether the meters are “fast enough.”

They’re sitting right down there at the sample level, it’s far better than working with even the fastest analog meters (peak meters that might respond in milliseconds or even hundreds of microseconds). The meters are peak holding (so you can see if you’ve clipped, and see your highest levels more easily). They are not analog LED circuits, so there are no “persistence” problems for our eyes as some people had theorized earlier in this thread.

The meters are extremely accurate, and you can trust them. By Command-clicking on the volume numerical on a Mac (CTRL on Windows), you can see the exact number of headroom in dB. (If you click on the headroom numerical at any time, the last held level will be cleared.) This can be very helpful in setting levels at times."