my master volume is in red...

[Murt]

Originally Posted by AdamPT8

This is the point I was trying to make, it isn't correcting anything...

Lets say you record a guitar that peaks at -3dB

You then add an EQ which may increase the signal to -2dB

You then add a compressor which might reduce the gain to -3dB again

(All good so far)

You then add a distortion plugin which may increase the gain 4dB to +1dB (peak)

You then add a trim plug and reduce the gain by 10dB so the signal is at -9dB (following, yes?)

This is where I think you may be getting confused, because the signal has already peaked at the distortion stage, reducing the gain on the trim won't get rid of the peaked signal because it is still peaking at the output of the distortion, all you are doing is turning the distorted signal down which may appear to be not peaking but still actually is. (no correctiveness at all)


However, adding the trim before any other insert would work. I shall use the same example...

Guitar recorded to -3dB

Add a trim and reduce the signal by 7dB so we are now at -10dB

Add the EQ which increases the signal to -9dB

Add the compressor which takes the gain back down to -10dB

Add the distortion which will raise the gain 4dB to -6dB


As you can see, no where in the chain does the signal peak, that is the correct way to use the trim plug.

If you are talking about using it on a recording that peaked at the recording stage then using the trim will again make no difference as once it has peaked the only thing that can be done is to re-record.

Adam

There's no point using the trim in this situation as you can use gain staging to achieve the optimum level. I'm not referring to signals that have clipped, I'm referring to signals that were recorded too hot (not clipping, i.e cutting off the waveform) but in summation clipping the master. You can attenuate these after the event.

[AdamPT8]

Originally Posted by Murt

There's no point using the trim in this situation as you can use gain staging to achieve the optimum level. I'm not referring to signals that have clipped, I'm referring to signals that were recorded too hot (not clipping, i.e cutting off the waveform) but in summation clipping the master. You can attenuate these after the event.

I tried to show in my explanation how the trim would work if inserted before the rest of the plugs as to compared to using it after them, obviously recording a guitar that clips at -3dB is far too hot. You need to be careful not to clip the signal at the plugins.

If (as I now think you mean) none of your tracks actually peak but the master fader peaks, you said to insert a trim after all the plugs to bring the level of each channel down until the master doesn't peak?

I wouldn't recommend fixing the problem that way, I would do it by grouping all the tracks together, then as you bring one down, all the others will automatically come down as well keeping in proportion with how you mixed it, so your mix will never change doing it this way. This way is much much quicker in many ways, takes seconds to do/adjust as you only need to move one fader.

Also, in LE, you could simply bring the master fader down until it isn't clipping due to it using floating point maths, but you couldn't do that in HD as it uses fixed point maths.

[tomhartman]

I use an AUX for a master, because of the pre post insert FX thing. I don't want different compression as the master volume is faded.

Before the "master Aux" I have another master fader to trim it if I need to.

TH

[AdamPT8]

Originally Posted by tomhartman

I use an AUX for a master, because of the pre post insert FX thing. I don't want different compression as the master volume is faded.

Before the "master Aux" I have another master fader to trim it if I need to.

TH

That's interesting, I never knew that the master channel inserts were post fade, just checked it with a trim plugin, seems a bit weird.

[AdamPT8]

actually it's a mixture of both, even stranger

[grubbgto]

there's bunches of things you COULD do...
-if you know exactly where the peaks are coming from (ie., some super hard snare hits), start by turning that track down a bit and see what happens to your mix... maybe it's just simply too loud (or recorded oddly).
-compress those tracks to where they still sit nicely, but don't lose their vibe.
-automate the volume on just those hits that are causing the peaks (such as wild snare hits that may be popping out of your mix).
-copy/paste non-peaking elements of the same type (ie., replace a snare hit that doesn't peak with the one that does)
-keep things simple (not the best, but simple) and select the "ALL" icon in the group selection zone (assuming you don't have automation going on), turn all your tracks down uniformly until there are no peaks on the master, (make sure your mix is still decent), and then put a limiter on the master at -.01db and bring down the threshold until it starts hitting about -3db and listen for distortion... if none, don't be afraid to push it depending on the kind of music your making (and limiter you're using). if you select the 'ALL' group and bring everything down, make sure once you have everything sitting well, turn off the 'ALL' grouping button and bring the master, stereo audio track and aux tracks, etc., back up to 0db as well.
-that's just a few things that are possible... this last suggestion has it's own inherent issues, but hopefully might give you the best and easiest solution to solve your master peaking/clipping issues.

good luck
g

[montreal]

you're all very funny...

do you remember guys i created this topic and nobody answered my LAST question ?

[montreal]

Originally Posted by tomhartman

I use an AUX for a master, because of the pre post insert FX thing. I don't want different compression as the master volume is faded.

Before the "master Aux" I have another master fader to trim it if I need to.

TH

do you mean that for example you have a compressor on the master volume and when you lower it the compression is changing proportionnaly ?... cause this is a problem for me too !!! so you use an Aux ? how do you do ? you assign all your tracks to that Aux ??? any other things i should know to do that properly ?

[grubbgto]

to answer your last question... yes, in the digital world, generally it is a problem if your master track is reading in the red. whether you hear distortion or not, it means you're master is peaking and/or clipping to some degree.
all the suggestions to your post have been helpful if followed to suit your needs. if you just put a limiter on your master track, you may still hear distortion if you push it too hard, but no matter what, if you set the gain at -.01, you will never peak (red-line) your master track.
good luck.
g

[montreal]

Originally Posted by grubbgto

to answer your last question... yes, in the digital world, generally it is a problem if your master track is reading in the red. whether you hear distortion or not, it means you're master is peaking and/or clipping to some degree.
all the suggestions to your post have been helpful if followed to suit your needs. if you just put a limiter on your master track, you may still hear distortion if you push it too hard, but no matter what, if you set the gain at -.01, you will never peak (red-line) your master track.
good luck.
g

? are you answering to that question ? which one exactly ??

"""""so i read this article (with my bad english) which seems very interesting..

so lets say all my sources are recorded in green...
does this article says that even if all my individuals tracks are in red i just have to lower the master volume fader to obtain a very clean signal ? to obtain the EXACT SAME signal of all individuals tracks as if they were in green ???""""""