Using Outboard with PT11 and UAD Apollo Console 2

[Monk]

So, I've been on a UAD Apollo and PT10 system for a while and happily using my analog outboard (via insert i/o sends) with zero latency problems.

I have just made the switch to Console 2 and PT11, and now I am experiencing latency using the same analog outboard (via insert i/o sends).

What am I doing wrong?

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Monk

So, I've been on a UAD Apollo and PT10 system for a while and happily using my analog outboard (via insert i/o sends) with zero latency problems.

I have just made the switch to Console 2 and PT11, and now I am experiencing latency using the same analog outboard (via insert i/o sends).

What am I doing wrong?

Are you going FW800 or Thunderbolt for the Apollo connection?
Are you using PT mode in the new UAD software (it was actually there before the new console s/w)? And if so is your system properly set up?
And do you still have that 4 gig of ram your profile says? PT11 really wants to see 8 gig or better.
You're always going to have latency when using outboard hardware. No way around it except to nudge tracks after they're recorded.

[ArKay99]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Are you going FW800 or Thunderbolt for the Apollo connection?
Are you using PT mode in the new UAD software (it was actually there before the new console s/w)? And if so is your system properly set up?
And do you still have that 4 gig of ram your profile says? PT11 really wants to see 8 gig or better.

Agree. I'm using FW and I experience about 15ms of latency at 48k when listening through the software.

Originally Posted by musicman691

You're always going to have latency when using outboard hardware. No way around it except to nudge tracks after they're recorded.

With the Apollo, the I/O is done inside the hardware before it goes to the software. Of course there is the playback latency through the FW port but that is compensated for. I did not experience hardware I/O latency with my Apollo unless I was also using that same outboard for recording AND playing back. Then it was the 15ms latency, which for verbs and such isn't really a problem when recording. Sometimes a 15ms predelay on a verb sounds nice.

[mrtomcat]

make sure you turn Low Latency monitoring on in PT and have input monitoring off so that you only monitor the new signal through Apollo

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by ArKay99

Agree. I'm using FW and I experience about 15ms of latency at 48k when listening through the software.

With the Apollo, the I/O is done inside the hardware before it goes to the software. Of course there is the playback latency through the FW port but that is compensated for. I did not experience hardware I/O latency with my Apollo unless I was also using that same outboard for recording AND playing back. Then it was the 15ms latency, which for verbs and such isn't really a problem when recording. Sometimes a 15ms predelay on a verb sounds nice.

The latency may be compensated for for what Apollo does but that does not take into account latency when going through the external hardware (at least not that I'm aware of). That's what I was talking about.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Are you going FW800 or Thunderbolt for the Apollo connection?
Are you using PT mode in the new UAD software (it was actually there before the new console s/w)? And if so is your system properly set up?
And do you still have that 4 gig of ram your profile says? PT11 really wants to see 8 gig or better.
You're always going to have latency when using outboard hardware. No way around it except to nudge tracks after they're recorded.

I'm using Thunderbolt to a 2012 Mac Mini with 16GB of RAM.

I have the Console settings set to PT Mode (PT Legacy). I have my system patched and i/o set up the same as when I was running PT10.

I was actually under the impression that analog hardware outboard has zereo latency, and that one only needs to deal with latency with digital based outboard.

My setup worked before switching to PT11 and Console 2.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Monk

I'm using Thunderbolt to a 2012 Mac Mini with 16GB of RAM.

I have the Console settings set to PT Mode (PT Legacy). I have my system patched and i/o set up the same as when I was running PT10.

I was actually under the impression that analog hardware outboard has zereo latency, and that one only needs to deal with latency with digital based outboard.

My setup worked before switching to PT11 and Console 2.

If the connection to the outboard is analog you WILL have latency because, amongst other things, you've got digital to analog conversion on the way out of the interface and analog to digital conversion on the way back in on the interface. Not to mention any latency going through the analog gear which can vary depending on the processor.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by musicman691

If the connection to the outboard is analog you WILL have latency because, amongst other things, you've got digital to analog conversion on the way out of the interface and analog to digital conversion on the way back in on the interface. Not to mention any latency going through the analog gear which can vary depending on the processor.

Man, I just don't know if that's right. For starters, there are no processors in analog gear, and no latency should be occurring.

I agree that conversion causes latency, but I think that should be accounted for by delay compensation.

Regardless, my rig was working with PT10 and Console 1, but not with PT11 and Console 2.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Monk

Man, I just don't know if that's right. For starters, there are no processors in analog gear, and no latency should be occurring.

I agree that conversion causes latency, but I think that should be accounted for by delay compensation.

Regardless, my rig was working with PT10 and Console 1, but not with PT11 and Console 2.

PT delay comp won't compensate for converter delay comp unless you're running PTHD and Avid converters; third party converters may not properly report their latency to PT.

You don't need a processor chip to cause latency delays. ALL circuitry has delays, analog or digital. You may not hear it as a delay but it's there. Compressors have delay and the worst I know of is the LA2A.

[Monk]

Originally Posted by musicman691

PT delay comp won't compensate for converter delay comp unless you're running PTHD and Avid converters; third party converters may not properly report their latency to PT.

You don't need a processor chip to cause latency delays. ALL circuitry has delays, analog or digital. You may not hear it as a delay but it's there. Compressors have delay and the worst I know of is the LA2A.

The thing is, this delay is significant. I hear it, I see it, it's there and it wasn't before. As much as I appreciate the chatter about conversion latency and the debate about analog gear introducing latency, the fact remains that this wasn't happening in PT10 (& Console 1). So, I have to deduce that conversion and analog gear isn't the cause of the latency.