Opinions on the 003 A/D converters?

[V314]

Hey guys,

I'm looking to get one nice channel going in that I can use for individually tracking vocals and acoustic guitar- and possibly direct electric guitar and bass as well.

The question I have is, would I be better off getting a new a/d converter or putting that money directly into a new mic and mic pre?

Currently I'm using an AT3035 directly into my digi 003 r+. The purchase I was originally thinking of making was a neumann tlm 49 and avalon m5 or great river.

I was about to purchase these when someone suggested I won't hear much difference unless I upgrade the a/d converter and that I wouldn't have to spend as much on the mic and pre if I did that instead.

After that suggestion was made to me I'm now thinking a Rosetta Appogee 200 and auteur and using the AT 3035 or possibly getting another mic around 500 dollar range. Although what I've heard makes sense in theory, I'm not sure how accurate it is. Perhaps he's being 'too' harsh on the 003 a/d converters.

Any thoughts, is it true I'll hear a bigger jump in audio quality upgrading the a/d converter instead of spending 1 grand on a mic and 1 grand on a pre?

thanks

[Tom Hartman]

Originally Posted by V314

Hey guys,

I'm looking to get one nice channel going in that I can use for individually tracking vocals and acoustic guitar- and possibly direct electric guitar and bass as well.

The question I have is, would I be better off getting a new a/d converter or putting that money directly into a new mic and mic pre?

Currently I'm using an AT3035 directly into my digi 003 r+. The purchase I was originally thinking of making was a neumann tlm 49 and avalon m5 or great river.

I was about to purchase these when someone suggested I won't hear much difference unless I upgrade the a/d converter and that I wouldn't have to spend as much on the mic and pre if I did that instead.

After that suggestion was made to me I'm now thinking a Rosetta Appogee 200 and auteur and using the AT 3035 or possibly getting another mic around 500 dollar range. Although what I've heard makes sense in theory, I'm not sure how accurate it is. Perhaps he's being 'too' harsh on the 003 a/d converters.

Any thoughts, is it true I'll hear a bigger jump in audio quality upgrading the a/d converter instead of spending 1 grand on a mic and 1 grand on a pre?

thanks

Been there done that

Forget the 003. Some people will tell you the pre won't make that much difference but that's because they:

1 Are deaf

2 Or have not used a great pre.

Take this info for what it's worth but I do exactly what you are talking about and been through this for ages with these same decisions.

Forget the GR pre, I know some people like it, but I personally don't think it is worth it(owned it, dumped it)....especially when for nearly the same price you can get an API.

If you can afford it, get an API 512c and even a mic like the AT4050 (great on acoustic and vocals) and come back and tell us what you hear. Then, after get some more money, you are right on with the Rosetta 200, it's a monster. Get one of the 2 space rack units to house the API instead of the expensive Lunchbox with slots you'll never fill. That way you can always add another pre or EQ to the 2 space rack (another pre such as a Neve style, darker thicker pre). Or a compressor for the 500 series. The API sounds great on everything. It will be the one piece you don't question in your setup, ever.

A good dealer will let you try several mics but the AT is a real sleeper and very good without breaking the bank. Need any help with dealer recommendations you can PM me.

Good luck
Tom

[V314]

Tom, sincerely thank you. Your suggestions sound right on with my longer term vision as well, with the API stuff, perfect. Something didn't feel completely right withe the pre's I was looking at etc... and I new there was a place for the rossetta, possibly down the road some... perfect. I'm looking into these items now and may be contacting you soon for the dealer recommendations. Thanks again.

[albee1952]

More opinions for you. I personally think the TLM49 is over-hyped. I owned on for a year and sold it shortly after buying an MXL V89(yup, a $400 microphone). I also have a V69 with a NOS Mullard tube and the V69 won every time on female vocals, and the V89 beat the 49 every time on Male vocals. The AT4050 and 4060(tube) are both great mics in that price range. Other mics to look at: Mojave MA-200 or 201FET, Shure KSM44A or Rode NTK, NT2000. One route you might consider(speaking of API) is the API A2D. 2 preamps with premium A>D converters coming in on the SPDIF connector(bypassing all 003 analog circuitry). On a budget, the Focusrite ISA-ONE is a solid preamp(I love my ISA-428). Or the Avalon sp737(never heard anyone complain about that one)

[V314]

Thanks for the feedback on the TLM-49, was wondering about that. I was looking at the API A2D, 2 more pres with the a/d converters and in the same price range as the Rosetta 200, I really need to consider this. Have you heard if the a/d converters are as good as the Rosetta? I understand they are comparable, but is one actually better than the other? or, does it come down to 'taste' at this point?

Thanks albee1952 (aka Hobee1952)

[Tom Hartman]

Originally Posted by albee1952

More opinions for you. I personally think the TLM49 is over-hyped. I owned on for a year and sold it shortly after buying an MXL V89(yup, a $400 microphone). I also have a V69 with a NOS Mullard tube and the V69 won every time on female vocals, and the V89 beat the 49 every time on Male vocals. The AT4050 and 4060(tube) are both great mics in that price range. Other mics to look at: Mojave MA-200 or 201FET, Shure KSM44A or Rode NTK, NT2000. One route you might consider(speaking of API) is the API A2D. 2 preamps with premium A>D converters coming in on the SPDIF connector(bypassing all 003 analog circuitry). On a budget, the Focusrite ISA-ONE is a solid preamp(I love my ISA-428). Or the Avalon sp737(never heard anyone complain about that one)

Albee yes thanks I've wondered about that TLM49 too, I haven't heard it.

TH

[Tom Hartman]

Originally Posted by V314

Thanks for the feedback on the TLM-49, was wondering about that. I was looking at the API A2D, 2 more pres with the a/d converters and in the same price range as the Rosetta 200, I really need to consider this. Have you heard if the a/d converters are as good as the Rosetta? I understand they are comparable, but is one actually better than the other? or, does it come down to 'taste' at this point?

Thanks albee1952 (aka Hobee1952)

V....the only thing I don't like about the API A2D is you are trapped in it. Your pres and converters are all in one box and you can't change either. Personally I haven't heard anything knock me out as much as the Rosetta (it's HUGE sounding) except for the new Avid stuff (Omni, etc) which is really really good too. Toss up at that point. But if you get a Rosetta you'll just be smiling a whole lot. The API and the Rosetta after your 003 will give you one of those "Holy s***t! " moments in life, I'm not kidding...

TH

[nst7]

There's another option for converters that will be available soon at a really good price. The new Black Lion Audio converters based on their FM192 mod. This will be a 2 channel A/D converter for around $1000-1200 (in that ballpark, anyway). If this sounds good, at that price, you might be able to get that converter, and a good pre and mic.

As for mics, check out the new Miktek CV4. Everything I've heard sounds amazing.

[tribedescribe]

There are tons of options and many many excellent choices for pre's, less so for converters. If you want your best bang for your buck below are some excellent choices. When looking at d/a a/d converters I would keep it adat, because you can also monitor through it, spdif is tougher to monitor through because of latency.

best bang for buck

Daking mic pre one $750- I own it and it is a excellent choice. It class A and sounds identical to the daking iv. Its a great all around pre and sounds can compete with almost any boutique pre. It has the trident a range sound.

RME adi-2 - adat converter. $800 new $400 used! I used to own one and the d/a a/d is on par with the apogee rosetta, just cheaper. (da 116db ad 119db!) These pop up on evilbay for $400-500 all the time.

IF you found the rme used that would be $12-1300 for your money channel. You could also monitor through the RME via d/a adat.

For the money you cannot do better. You could spend more. Basically all the pre's clean be broken down into flavors.

Here is a great chart on preamp's and the color of their sounds.

http://www.thelisteningsessions.com/micpregraph.htm

[nst7]

[QUOTE=tribedescribe;1751731]There are tons of options and many many excellent choices for pre's, less so for converters. If you want your best bang for your buck below are some excellent choices. When looking at d/a a/d converters I would keep it adat, because you can also monitor through it, spdif is tougher to monitor through because of latency.


Could you explain this further? Because it doesn't make any sense or fit with my own experience.