Revised Pricing for CPTK to PT HD Upgrades

[dstryrwiz]

Originally Posted by Bruce Paine

We are in the process of adding the option for owners of the Pro Tools 11/10 + CPTK licenses to upgrade to Pro Tools HD 11/HD10 license. It may take another few days for it to appear on the store, but it will be added. You should wait until that option is available before purchasing that upgrade.

The price will be the same as the upgrades from Pro Tools 10 + CPTK. I don't think it cost you any more than if you had waited, since you would have needed to upgrade from Pro Tools 9 to 10 for that pricing. And it sounds like you upgraded from Pro Tools 9 to the Pro Tools 10/11 license.

Honestly, having an upgrade path in the system for people that upgraded to Pro Tools 11, but have the CPTK, and wish to move to HD for the offered price less the upgrade price to get to 11 would actually assist on another issue. Students with their 4 years of free upgrades would automatically receive the upgrade to 11, and they are all currently on 10, so it would be equivalent to them essentially paying for the upgrade to 11, however they are still being asked to pay the same price to get to HD as everyone else. If the upgrade price to get to 11 were able to be removed from the HD price for people already with Pro Tools 11 licenses, that would actually be quite fair, and be a much fairer deal for students.

[Zarabozo]

Is there any upgrade path from PT11 + CPTK to PT11 HD?

If not, what should I do in such case?

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Zarabozo

Is there any upgrade path from PT11 + CPTK to PT11 HD? If not, what should I do in such case?

I don't really know, but I would GUESS that it's the same as PT10+CPTK to PT11HD -- after all, your iLok would have the PT10 asset if you have PT11.

[Zarabozo]

Originally Posted by JFreak

I don't really know, but I would GUESS that it's the same as PT10+CPTK to PT11HD -- after all, your iLok would have the PT10 asset if you have PT11.

Well, not exactly. For starters, for what I've seen so far, you wouldn't be able to surrender a PT11/PT10 bundle + CPTK - iLok wants you to have the exact bundle Avid says needs to be surrendered (PT10 or PT9/PT10 and a separate CPTK license). Actually, there is people having problems because they bought the PT10 + CPTK upgrade and they actually had a PT9/PT10 license, which is rejected for that upgrade.

If you, for any reason got PT11 (e.g. you just bought an MBox), and you also already have the CPTK license, it wouldn't be fair having to pay $599 just like coming from PT10.

PT10 users upgrade to PT11 for $299. PT10 + CPTK users upgrade to PT11 HD for $599. So, given a situation (that I've seen arround enough) where you already got PT11 and also have CPTK, you should probably have a balanced $300 upgrade path from PT11 + CPTK to PT11 HD.

However, I don't see any available option for that case.

[ejwells]

Bruce Paine chimed in about this and said yes, the 11+CPTK to HD11 upgrade will be in the Avid store (and at dealers) soon.

[dstryrwiz]

Originally Posted by Zarabozo

Well, not exactly. For starters, for what I've seen so far, you wouldn't be able to surrender a PT11/PT10 bundle + CPTK - iLok wants you to have the exact bundle Avid says needs to be surrendered (PT10 or PT9/PT10 and a separate CPTK license). Actually, there is people having problems because they bought the PT10 + CPTK upgrade and they actually had a PT9/PT10 license, which is rejected for that upgrade.

If you, for any reason got PT11 (e.g. you just bought an MBox), and you also already have the CPTK license, it wouldn't be fair having to pay $599 just like coming from PT10.

PT10 users upgrade to PT11 for $299. PT10 + CPTK users upgrade to PT11 HD for $599. So, given a situation (that I've seen arround enough) where you already got PT11 and also have CPTK, you should probably have a balanced $300 upgrade path from PT11 + CPTK to PT11 HD.

However, I don't see any available option for that case.

That is exactly what I suggested. Bruce said the upgrade path would be the same price from 11+CPTK to 11HD as from 10+CPTK to 11HD, but your reasoning is exactly why I said it should be a different price. It would also give students with their free upgrade to 11 an opportunity for a discount seeing as they will be upgraded to 11 regardless. By offering a $300 upgrade price for those with 11 already, it gives students a more fair upgrade path, and it also allows those who decided to try and deal with 11 without getting HD, then changed their minds and want to upgrade, to have the option without having to pay for the upgrade twice.

[Zarabozo]

Originally Posted by dstryrwiz

That is exactly what I suggested. Bruce said the upgrade path would be the same price from 11+CPTK to 11HD as from 10+CPTK to 11HD, but your reasoning is exactly why I said it should be a different price. It would also give students with their free upgrade to 11 an opportunity for a discount seeing as they will be upgraded to 11 regardless. By offering a $300 upgrade price for those with 11 already, it gives students a more fair upgrade path, and it also allows those who decided to try and deal with 11 without getting HD, then changed their minds and want to upgrade, to have the option without having to pay for the upgrade twice.

I just saw a post from Bruce in another thread, stating it will cost $599 for PT11 + CPTK to PT11 HD.

I really don't get the reasoning behind that price. Sounds truly unfair to me. And I'm not even on that situation myself. $300 would be mathematically balanced against all other upgrade paths.


Francisco

[CPTK]

Would someone from Avid (Tony, Tom, Bruce, Marianna ... or anyone of Avid "significance") please explain why the upgrade from CPTK to HD11 results in a NON-TRANSFERABLE HD11 license?

Where the CPTK was the only Avid-sanctioned form of software-only license allowed to unlock "HD features", the non-transferability of the resulting HD11 upgraded license implies that we are no different than those who previously purchased a non-sanctioned, secondhand HD10 license and then upgraded it to HD11.

Apparently HD11 hardware users have a method to transfer their hardware AND HD11 license on the secondhand market to a single purchaser. Shouldn't CPTK users who've "legally" upgraded to software-only HD11 be offered that same ability to transfer their upgraded HD licenses too? I would like to hear a valid response that supports the current scenario because it currently encourages PT10+CPTK licensees to not upgrade to HD11 because of the ability to transfer the CPTK license but not the HD11 license.

Perhaps I am missing some pertinent information here but does Avid have a mechanism for CPTK-to-HD11 upgraders to transfer their upgraded license through some "Transfer of Registration" paperwork or other "approval process", because iLok does not have any way to distinguish between: (1) Those who bought a loose, secondhand HD10 license upgraded to HD11; (2) Those that "legally" upgraded to HD11 through the CPTK upgrade program; (3) Those that purchased a brand new HD11 Activation Code without ever owning hardware or the CPTK license; and (4) HD11 hardware owners, because all HD11 licenses are listed the same: "Pro Tools HD 11 Bundle (4)".

Furthermore, Avid is suggesting that in order to purchase HD hardware in the future, the software-only licensee will essentially need to pay for HD11 again. Since the CPTK-to-HD11 upgraded license is NON-TRANSFERABLE, the current policy discourages such licensees from ever purchasing HD hardware in the future as they will be unable to freely transfer at least one of their HD11 licenses. If Avid fails to allow the CPTK-to-HD11 upgraded license to be transferred, then they are implying that it will be okay to sell the Activation Code bundled with the hardware. If that is the case, then Avid is suggesting that it's perfectly fine to split new HD hardware from its bundled software even though it's against the Pro Tools EULA. So which is it, Avid?

Currently CPTK licensees are in a better position to NOT upgrade to HD11 since we have the option to transfer our CPTK licenses now, but won't have that same ability for HD11 post-upgrade. Also the "unofficial" Avid CS response of selling our licenses along with our Avid and iLok accounts is utter nonsense if we have many other licenses aside from anything "Avid".

I plan to wait until this issue is cleared up. Since none of the concerns from Nigel's list have been answered yet, I'm expecting this to be a long wait. No worries cuz cash is king.

[nigelpry]

I don't plan to upgrade until there has been a response to the questions I compiled.

I was asked to compile the list by Avid, and was subsequently asked to provide evidence to demonstrate that CPTK was sold to students, both of which I did. Those requests, in my view, place an onus on Avid to respond formally.

The issue of licence transfer is just another turn of screw. As I have two licences, one of which is a student licence on the 4 year free upgrades deal, I've been waiting to get the free upgrade to see if that licence is also non-transferable.

I suspect it will be, and that non-transferability will apply to vanilla as well as HD 11 licences, but I'm still waiting for my free upgrade mail, so I can't verify this yet. Anyone else with a PT11 vanilla licence who can confirm?

As for transferring the licence by physically selling the iLok, well there is a big issue with that, which wasn't mentioned in CPTK's post.

You could buy an iLok and transfer the PT11 licence onto it, that solves the issue of your iLok having other licences on it that you are not selling on.

However, you have to register that iLok to your iLok account in order to transfer the PT licence to it. You can only deregister an iLok from your iLok account if it is empty, while it has licences on it, then it is tied to your account.

So, if you sell the physical iLok with a PT licence on it to someone else they can never get the licence asset registered into their iLok account, it will always remain registered to your account. They can never add more licences to that iLok, because it is registered to your account.

When future PT upgrades come around, they would either have to send you the iLok + money to perform the upgrade for them and trust you to send the iLok back, or you'd have to give them your iLok account details including password to allow them to do it themselves, and trust that they do not abuse it.

All in all, a very unsatisfactory arrangement.

In fact, the only sensible way around this issue is to transfer the existing PT10 + CPTK licences to a new iLok account and do the PT11HD upgrade using that new account.

That way, if you do decide to sell PT11HD and the iLok it is on (which is the only way you can do it) then you can give away the iLok account with the sale.

The practical downside of this, of course, is that you are left having to have multiple iLoks attached to the computer simultaneously .. one for your PT11 asset, and the other with all your other licences on it.

PS CPTK ... my signature is bigger than yours ... and I think my post is too ;-)

PPS everyone else ... the PS was an attempt at HUMOUR, please don't a) accuse me of unnecessarily lengthening my novelette, and b) draw any conclusions about perceived illusions of grandeur.

[CPTK]

Originally Posted by nigelpry

the only sensible way around this issue is to transfer the existing PT10 + CPTK licences to a new iLok account and do the PT11HD upgrade using that new account.

The practical downside of this, of course, is that you are left having to have multiple iLoks attached to the computer simultaneously .. one for your PT11 asset, and the other with all your other licences on it.

I appreciate the workaround that you offered to us here. However, I was more or less lamenting the fact that customers like you and me, who've played by Avid's rules all this time, are being penalized by policies that should only (if at all) be directed toward those that got to software-only HD11 by completely avoiding the CPTK license all together.

Avid clearly presents a way for hardware owners to sell their hardware and software secondhand. I don't see it as being fair that CPTK licensees who crossgraded to HD11 should be completely denied that same ability -- especially since; (1) the CPTK was originally allowed for transfer, and (2) the crossgrade from CPTK to HD11 was the only "legal" means for software-only users to run HD11. The workarounds that you mentioned would force, legitimate, software-only users of HD11 to purchase a new iLok key at $50 as well as an additional $25 iLok transfer fee to a secondary account just to start. HD11 hardware owners do not have to jump through such hoops to make sale their equipment they no longer want. I have no problem if users who got to HD11 by circumventing the CPTK license have to go through ridiculous lengths just to be able to do the simple task of transferring a license that CPTK crossgraders should inherently still have after upgrading to HD11, but for some odd reason do not.

Basically, the only group of users who should be able to transfer their HD11 licenses are those that crossgraded from the CPTK. Since Pro Tools HD is supposed to be tied to hardware, it makes no sense to offer hardware owners the ability to transfer Pro Tools software sans hardware, unless Avid chooses to change that policy. And those that circumvented the CPTK by getting HD11 by some unconventional means should bear all the risks of doing so on their own. Though looking back, it's ironic that those who worked the Avid "loopholes" were rewarded the most by Avid's policies. (So congratulations to those folks! I salute you! :-P )

Technically the pool of software-only HD11 users should be finite. At most, the software-only user base for HD11 should only be as large as the number of CPTK licenses outstanding. Of course this is not the case (hint: loopholes). So while Avid is attempting to protect the value of their Pro Tools hardware products as well as their vendors by locking down HD11 transfers, allowing CPTK crossgraders the ability to transfer their HD11 licenses should have a negligible impact on those two points because of the fact that there should only be a fixed and finite set of software-only HD11 users going forward. New sales of HD11 software have to (theoretically) come from the purchase of new Avid hardware. So why is Avid continuing to treat CPTK licensees like ________? (Fill in the blank: Another term for manure.)

Maybe if I "gamed the system" I wouldn't be so outraged, but Avid has achieved nothing more than to make it very distasteful to be a legitimate customer. Very simply, Avid really only need to rename the crossgraded CPTK iLok asset to something unique like "HD11 XGD" (as accidentally done between the days of June 21st through June 26th), or have iLok enable the "Transfer" option for former CPTK licensees. Given that iLok screwed up big time with the initial release of Pro Tools 11, I see no reason why they would not do this updated "accounting" free-of-charge for Avid.

I'm sure that some people are scratching their heads as to why I'm picking at this issue, but it really comes down to the implication that Avid is suggesting that CPTK-to-HD11 crossgraders must pay for HD11 again if they ever choose to purchase Avid hardware in the future. RECAP: Since CPTK crossgraders to HD11 are NOT allowed to transfer their license at all and the Avid EULA prohibits the sale of HD software from bundled hardware, former CPTK licensees will, in essence, have purchased HD11 all over again. Either Avid needs to allow CPTK-to-HD11 crossgraders the right to transfer or they need to modify the EULA to allow for brand new copies of HD11 to be sold independently of hardware.

Otherwise I'd like an explanation as to why Avid is essentially treating CPTK crossgraders like HD11 "outlaws".

Originally Posted by nigelpry

PS CPTK ... my signature is bigger than yours ... and I think my post is too ;-)

lol! I can't argue that! (Though I may have bested you this time around!)