Feature requests for "Digi 003" and PTLE 7 for 5.1

[auxsend1]

and Digi will still make bank because they'll be selling me a product that's comparable to the competition (if not somewhat inferior, still) at a much higher price point (the "Digi premium")... so the way i see it it's a no brainer for Digi.

You make some excellent points, but Digi will never go that route, because their HD sales would plummet. Until they figure out a way to keep that from happening, I don't see LE getting the features of the HD world.

Maybe what it will take is a new HD lineup that is so much more powerful than the current one that it's okay for LE to finally catch up!

[DrDVD]

You make some excellent points, but Digi will never go that route, because their HD sales would plummet. Until they figure out a way to keep that from happening, I don't see LE getting the features of the HD world.

Maybe what it will take is a new HD lineup that is so much more powerful than the current one that it's okay for LE to finally catch up!

This is a common opinion, but IMHO, this assumption begs revisiting, so let's take a closer look.

Who uses HD? Mainly (1) commercial studios, (2) video/post folks, and (3) a small contingent of well-to-do home studio owners.

(1) Most big commercial studios need HD because they are running 48-64 or more tracks through big consoles, and they need to be able to throw on as many DSP-hungry plug-ins as their clients require. Even the fastest host-based systems wouldn't cut it (at least not yet) - they truly need the extra DSP that HD offers, and they can't get that much from a G5 and a couple UAD-1s. Many of them also need TDM plug-ins.

(2) Video/post houses use HD with AVID. PTLE is a non-starter here. (Some post pros and soundtrack composers make do with PTLE and DV Toolkit, but mostly because HD is out of reach for them financially.)

(3) Cash-flush home studio owners will often go straight for whatever is most expensive (and, let's be honest, impressive). They can afford to by anything, and many could get by with any native DAW, but they get HD because it's "the best."

Most of the folks in each of these 3 categories are unlikely to change much in the foreseeable future. HD leads in the industry in raw DSP by a very strong margin, and it's firmly established as an industry standard, so it's not going to disappear overnight. Yes, HD is losing value and relevance as computers get faster and competing native DAW apps take better advantage of their hosts' power.

Recognizing this, many people have begun asking themselves the question, "Do we really need all that DSP, and is it really worth $8-$15k we could be putting into somthing else?" And more and more of these folks are finding HD isn't worth it for them, and they're switching to Nuendo (look at the trend in Nashville over the last couple years, for example) or DP. But this is a very gradual slide.

Would a refreshed PTLE product line that actually comes close to catching up with the rest of the competing native DAW apps tempt a few customers away from HD? Sure, probably a few. But i would bet my Nuendo 3 dongle that many more would be drawn to PTLE from Nuendo, DP, and Logic, et al... and countless current PTLE customers would be retained who otherwise would defect to Nuendo/DP/Logic et al. To me, it seems pretty clear that Digi would have much better odds of making more money by offering a reinvented PTLE product line that's very competitive in the CoreAudio/ASIO market, and the benefits of this would far outweigh the costs of having a few customers buy LE instead of HD.... but at least those folks would be ditching HD for LE instead of Nuendo, so Digi would still be getting their money and keeping them in the fold. Feel me here?

It seems overwhelmingly clear to me that if Digi were not to bring the LE line up to speed and make it competitive in today's market, the attrition of Digi customers to other platforms would continue to increase logarithmically. Digi's very smart marketing and R&D folks must know this - i really can't believe they would be that far out of touch (though, as i've said in previous posts, giants do fall when hubris takes over, and i don't know any of Digi's employees personally, so i can't comment on whether their corporate culture is afflicted with that virus of arrogance that blinds the giants to the state of things on the ground beneath them). It's simple: hubris is suicide - very slow suicide for a company with a near-monopoly position at the high end of the market, but suicide nonetheless. I really hope the Digi leadership gets this, and i have to believe they must.

I love the PT interface, and i want Digi to succeed so i can keep using it. To succeed, Digi will have to stay competitive and stay relevant. Right now, Digi is still competitive at the very high end (because they have little if any competition there), but they are mediocre in the low end and they are absolutely pathetic in the midrange. I want Digi's midrange gear to be great, but it just plain sucks. The Mbox is pretty cool by 2001 consumer standards, but the 002R is a 2U turd. Mediocre converters, lame mic pres, wimpy headphone amp, really lousy build quality, and no AES-EBU, no 192k support, no Word Clock, no linkable units... they actually give us far less functionality than the less expensive MOTU Traveler yet still manage to take up twice as much space.... And on the software side, PTLE (as much as i love it) is a toy compared to DP, Nuendo, or Logic. Its closest cousin, in terms of features, would be something like Cubase SE. If i were starting a home studio from scratch and had only $1200 to spend on the DAW, there's no question i'd get DP and a Traveler over the 002R, because that combo will let me do basically everything HD will let me do, limited only by the considerable power of my dual-2.5GHz G5 (with 5GB RAM), for a tiny fraction of the cost.

So, to make a long post longer, HD is already worlds more powerful than any host-based DAW - and worlds more expensive. The gap between HD and LE is CAVERNOUS. Digi has plenty of headroom to bring the LE line up to speed with MOTU, Steinberg, RME, Apple, and the rest without getting anywhere close to HD in terms of processing power. Let HD be distinguished by its monster DSP power, not by arbitrarily crippling the LE line. Make the LE line competitive and you can have our money.

Can i get a witness?

[just_sounds]

so we don't even think about asking for a score editor and more midi options we only want to get the basics up to speed hardware quality, track count, faster bouncing. wow that seems very basic to me hmmm....... makes you think

[just_sounds]

lets compare

Hercules
FW 16/12 Firewire Interface
Hercules FW 16/12 Firewire Interface, Hercules 16/12 FW has brackets to be fixed in 19"1U racks. Word clock in/outsynchronizes Hercules 16/12 FW with the studio equipment.All analog inputs can record in TRS balancedmode,16-in/12-out multitrack record and playback, 16independent inputs: 10 gold-plated, balanced or unbalancedjacks, 2 combo connectors preamped (XLR/Jack ¼ ),4-channel SPDIF inputs (optical & coaxial), 12 independentoutputs: 8 gold-plated, balanced or unbalanced jacks,4-channel SPDIF outputs (optical & coaxial), 24-bit 96KHzaudio resolution, Sampling rates: 44.1, 48 and 96KHz, A/DConverters: 105 dB (A-weighted), D/A Converters: 114 dB(A-Weighted), 2 MIDI In / 2 MIDI out interface, Compatiblewith PC (Microsoft Windows 2000 / XP) and Mac (OS X 10.3)Software package: Live Special Edition (from Ableton),Cubase LE (from Steinberg)

€ 444,=

DIGIDESIGN
DIGI 002 Rack
DIGIDESIGN DIGI 002 Rack Firewire Interface, 24Bit/96kHz, 8In/Out, ADAT,4x Preamp, incl. ProTools LE,

€1125,=

difference ..... 002r has 2 pre amps more
but the hercules has some features like wordclock more i/o more midi i/o

and for the difference in cost you could buy a cubase sx upgrade (but cubase le supports 48 tracks......) and 2 nice pre amps wich would fit nicely in the free rack slot
i could make a big list of cheaper solutions but pro tools is just a nice program to use but if you read this start imagining what you could do with more than €600 (one euro is 1,25 dollar and we pay 19% sales tax )
( source thomann.de)

[DrDVD]

so we don't even think about asking for a score editor and more midi options we only want to get the basics up to speed hardware quality, track count, faster bouncing. wow that seems very basic to me hmmm....... makes you think

You're so very right... there are many other features that PT lacks that are now standard on the competing products, and i didn't mean to suggest that my list was a complete one. Legions of us have been asking for faster than real-time track bouncing since they took it away with the advent of version 5. (I don't know about a notation editor, though... i hesititate to ask Digi for that because they'd be reinventing a very complicated wheel, and i rather doubt they'd do it nearly as well as Sibelius or Finale... perhaps they should acquire Sibelius and build it into PT...?)

Cheers,
m

[love666]

no man. let's stay on point. digital interface and re-coded software. features are just a drag. address the osx issues. in tdm, upgrade the plug-in bus to 48 bits. do something about the metering so people will realize that they are cutting way too hot and messing up the sound. do something so that summing sounds better. stereo image. dump the cheap le interfaces and provide stripped down pro interfaces. make a standalone version with a dongle. upgrade the rest of the digirack plugins. introduce good-sounding src. clean up the cheaply osx-ified gui.

forget about notation and midi, etc. for a while.

personally i am putting together a mix system running 5 on os9 with a trak 2 and a free system running on a tibook with a vx pocket.

when sonic x comes out i will migrate some multitrack workflow to that.

but le -- le 5 on an amiii was ok. however the current situation is not happening.

[kelsey]

so we don't even think about asking for a score editor and more midi options we only want to get the basics up to speed hardware quality, track count, faster bouncing. wow that seems very basic to me hmmm....... makes you think

Just to add my two cents ... I couldn't agree more. Features are great on paper, lovely to look at, but when we get down to the work flow, the core of our industry, getting things done, nothing is more important than stability, speed, quality, and flexibility. I don't expect or want PT to be my all everything solution, but I do expect it to keep up and exceed competitors in what it does, high quality efficient recording, mixing, editing etc...

I agree there is a significant gap between the LE systems and the HD systems that Digi could do a better job of branching(maybe having M-powered systems will help, don't know). I could only drool at an AU support version of PT, but understand hardware reliability issues associated with such, and I would rather keep my time using the program, not fixing it, so Digi, keep your proprietary hardware, that's fine, but please, PLEASE give us what we need in return, quality and compatibility. Stripping down LE was probably a great solution when LE first came out, but now it's become obvious some of the limitations imposed have become a problem, and it's time to re-look at your market and strategies concerning this.
corporate thought often brings the wrong directions
Us forum users might know nothing about your business, but your business is nothing without us, so please listen.
Peace
3D

[Duardo]

do something about the metering so people will realize that they are cutting way too hot and messing up the sound.

You think any sort of metering will help that?

do something so that summing sounds better.

That's more up to the user than anything.

-Duardo

[love666]

You think any sort of metering will help that?

That's more up to the user than anything.

-Duardo

metering . . . probably not. although there are some plugs that address the situation, a better solution is advocated in this thread (great thread):

legal clipping/intersample peaks/etc

summing . . . given the status quo of le and tdm math, you're right. incidentally, the previous thread also addresses summing and reveals that itb summing may be getting a bad rap

[silverlode]

Isn't this all a bit academic? The 001 was introduced in Sept. 1999, the 002r in Aug. 2003. So, as far as the product cycle goes, we're about 2 years away from the 003r....

That plus the M-Audio developments to me spell a long wait for the 003r.