Pan Depth/Law questions

[Rich Breen]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

...Something panned hard right with a 6dB pan *has* to sound louder than the same thing panned with 2.5dB pan...

Nope - Seems to be a misunderstanding about what pan depth does; it affects the level when pan pot is at center. Fader is unity at hard L/R regardless of pan law.

Also worth noting that the pan depth setting *only* affects stereo mixes - if you're mixing in any surround format then pan depth is fixed at the standard -3dB regardless of setting in the Session Setup window.

[wwittman]

Exactly.

the only point of 'pan laws' is to make MOVING the pan position sound more even as the signal moves through the centre.

once you pick a static position it's meaningless.

[Ben Jenssen]

Originally Posted by wwittman

Exactly.

the only point of 'pan laws' is to make MOVING the pan position sound more even as the signal moves through the centre.

once you pick a static position it's meaningless.

I see.
Pretty simple, really.
Thanks for sorting it out for us, folks.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by Rich Breen

Also worth noting that the pan depth setting *only* affects stereo mixes - if you're mixing in any surround format then pan depth is fixed at the standard -3dB regardless of setting in the Session Setup window.

Yes this is it exactly, but I think it has to be borne in mind that a mix with 2.5 pans will, by necessity, sound different collapsed down to mono than a pan setting of say 4.5dB. Maybe this is axiomatic, but to me I felt like e.g a sound hard-panned could sound too “quiet” in the overall balance when it collapsed to mono using 2.5db settings. I would urge everyone who doubts this to just try it out for themselves. This probably isn’t the definition of “mono compatibility” but it is an interesting phenomenon if you’re unaware of it and I think that’s what I was driving at. I find it fairly hard to believe that the original default setting for the pan of 2.5dB was considered fine up until version 8 or whichever one it was that introduced this option.

[Pete Gates]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

Yes this is it exactly, but I think it has to be borne in mind that a mix with 2.5 pans will, by necessity, sound different collapsed down to mono than a pan setting of say 4.5dB

No, it definitely won't "by necessity" sound different. Rich & William are completely correct, pan law has nothing to do with mono compatibility at all.

You'll only notice pan law making a difference to a mix if you switch the pan law in a pre-existing balanced mix, but that would affect the stereo mix too, not just the fold-down.

Pan law options are just different volume taper characteristics between left and right (or multiple-channels) as you adjust the pan control. They are not fold-down coefficients. They just affect the level of channels as you pan between them, and different people may favour different settings (partly on personal preference and what feels comfortable with no bumps or dips in level as they pan across the soundstage, partly on the quality of the monitoring/room setup). They have no later effect on anything. You can't hear what pan law anyone chose after the fact, they'll pan things where they want and quite possibly then further adjust the level for a good balance.

Cheers,
Pete

[midnightrambler]

Hmm okay thanks guys I think I will have to eat a bit of humble pie on this one. Every day is a school day

[Pete Gates]

No worries, it's all a learning journey! Been in post sound for 40 years and I'm still picking up new ideas/knowledge - or perhaps I'm just quite slow 😂

Cheers,
Pete

[daeron80]

I'm not convinced. I think the assertion that it doesn't matter is based on the simplistic assumption that no one ever moves pan positions during mix.

[Pete Gates]

Hi David,
I haven't made any simplistic assumptions at all. If you pan across the soundstage rather than pick a static pan position, then yes, different pan laws will have an effect on a mono fold-down. The important point is that it will have a corresponding effect on the stereo mix too - with the perceived level rising or dipping in the middle, the amount will depend on the pan law and the monitoring environment.

Cheers,
Pete

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by daeron80

I'm not convinced. I think the assertion that it doesn't matter is based on the simplistic assumption that no one ever moves pan positions during mix.

no. it's based on a totally reasonable assumption that if you move the pan position "during a mix" you can, and likely will, also move the fader.