Master Bus Processing and sub mixes

[djd2]

What is the best approach here.

I (like most here) need to submix stuff and bounce groups of instruments to stereo pairs to recover system resources. I generally work on drums then guits then vocals and leave the bass for the final mix of the various elements.

What I have been doing is mix with a very light compression on the master buss and also have the MCdsp analogue channel. I multibus with a normal and squished track. This is how I work on the sub mixes and what I am listening to as a proceed through the mix.

Questions are:

Do I bybass my master bus processing for the stereo bounces of submixes and re-apply to master bus only after the whole project is ready for a final combining mix.

Should I stereo bounce the non squished w/squished multibus or do that later when processing the final combination of pairs.

I am fairly new to the mix world. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I do experiment alot with these things which led me to asking these questions.

Dave

[djd2]

Bump...

Anybody want to chime in?

[Lapick]

Hey djd2,

Not that it's necessarily worth this much but I'll throw in my two cents.

Do I bybass my master bus processing for the stereo bounces of submixes and re-apply to master bus only after the whole project is ready for a final combining mix.

I would say yes for the simple reason that what you hear as you mix is the master buss compression reacting to the whole mix and not to submixes in isolation. Bouncing without it also means you don't have to commit until the last step.

Should I stereo bounce the non squished w/squished multibus or do that later when processing the final combination of pairs.

You could really do this one either way but I would prefer to bounce the non-squished submix and simply redo the 'squish' for each during the final mix (assuming enough resources are available). Once again it simply provides for more control during the last step.

Okay so it was only worth a penny. It's the thought that counts eh.

Regards

[djd2]

Thanks Lapick,

I guess I was wondering what happens in either scenario and if there is accepted ways to o things. When I submix using the processing on the master bus it is very light and barely noticeable just adds a little fat to the digital sound. If I leave it and this compounds, the next time I do a submix theoretically I have doubled the amount of master bus processing. I usually sub mix the main parts and then combine so I am only really talking about doubling the processing.

I guess it comes down to what sounds best and I can do multiple mixes to find out what is preffered. I thought some more experienced users might have a thought on this procedure.

Dave

[daeron80]

You'll probably find that each song requires a different method, sometimes even that some submixes within a song do better with, some without. More art than science.

[Lapick]

Dave,

You're absolutely right when you say that it comes down to what sounds best. The ears are the ultimate judge. Of course you're also correct about compounding the master buss treatments by using them more than once. Sorry, didn't mean to neglect that point just took it as a given. Such compounding may be good or it may be bad, depends on what your after.

To me the more important point (though probably more subtle) is that when you use treatments on the master buss those treatments are responding to the entire mix as you build (and make sonic judgements about) your tracks. If you then submix only some of those tracks using the same treatment it will likely respond a bit differently. If you do that with numerous submixes and then add them together the overall effect could be even less predictable. The overall effect may be subtle or it may not be. Once again the ears are the final judge.

As to which scenario might be more like a standard practice I'll let others with more experience address that. I know how I would do it but that's just me and I wouldn't presume that anything I do is acceptable or standard. In the end I think you hit the nail on the head. Play with different approaches and see what works.

Have fun!

Lapick

[Lapick]

After reading the post from daeron80 it occurred to me that I may have misunderstood what you were doing. If you're bouncing all of your tracks each time you submix then much of what I was talking about is meaningless.

Sorry for any confusion. I knew I bought into the whole "better living through chemicals" thing for a little too long.

Lapick

[Camilo Toledo]

Please don't get me wrong...

If you are new to the mixing world and unsure as to the right way to aproach your mixes, Why don't you just get a better system?? and stop compromising for the systems sake?

Why would you need to submix instruments in a song that, from what I heard is made of drums, guitars, bass, lead and background vocals?? 32 tracks isn't enough for this?? How many guitar tracks do you have???

And instead of submixing, why don't you "print" the plugs in some of your tracks to save some system power?

Correct me if I'm wrong... but unless you really know how to submix, It would be a lot harder to mix a song from a few submixed sections. A simple fact is that you cannot go back and fix things...( Well, you can but it is starting all over againg) if for instance you submixed your drums to an stereo track, you may find out at the final mix that your snare is too low.. or too high. Or that the panning was wrong.. Etc.

but..hey!!! what do I know.. its your choice.

[Jagg76]

I am a newbie to this concept and am wondering where I can learn more about submixing...?

Are there other threads here on the DUC? I haven't seen anything by searching...

[djd2]

Please don't get me wrong...
If you are new to the mixing world and unsure as to the right way to aproach your mixes, Why don't you just get a better system?? and stop compromising for the systems sake?

???$$$ My system is fine for my needs right now - my computer can't do a whole mix with plugs on all instruments and a couple of reverbs and delay effects on auxiliarys while operate swiftly enough. I don't ever use 32 tracks maybe 24-28.

I mix drums and process all the elements,kick,snare,toms etc. have 4 busses with a couple of reverbs and delays or whatever. I bounce this to stereo, save as a "drum stem mix" I move on to guitars and do the same process listening to the drums imported into a stereo channel. I have the individual drums de-activated. If I need more snare I can activate the channel if need be find my level and make a note to go back later to the "drums stem mix" again. I proceed this way with vocals, backing vocals etc.

This works best for me because my system resources run out. When I mix drums I do have all instruments available for monitoring the entire project. I like doing this submix method as I don't have to worry about so many tracks that need to be plug in delay compenstated at the same time. I just need to know the drums are all playing together.

I am happy with the quality of my mixes so far and am constantly experimenting, this is my own project and don't work on a schedule so going back and adjusting a previous submix is not a big deal as each grouping is saved as a session drums stem/guitar stem/vocals stem/ bu vocals stem/ I leave bass for the final mix and combine the 5 elements for the final mix. If at this point I need to bring a guitar up or a vocal down well I can go back to the sub group session to do it. At this final combining mix I have been parallel processing drums and guitars so I have a normal and squished pair to blend.

My original question related to the master bus processing in my case. Do I leave it on for the sub mixes or off. I guess it doesn't matter just as long as I like the out put in the end! I was hoping someone might offer up there process if you work the same way...until I get a new dual core system that allows me to mix in one session (not any time soon - just bought new monitors) this is how I will work.

Am I nuts?!

Dave