HD Video Playback-FEATURE REQUEST

[lafrosty]

FEATURE REQUEST

Please support HD Video Playback.

Support of the HDV codec will allow most Post Production Professionals to get the job done and what is the issue/problem with sending the HDV signal out the Fire Wire port, the same way Protools is currently sending DV out the Fire Wire port?

It is not very impressive when a Post Production Facility has to down convert it's client's HD material in order for the Audio Department to work with it and even less impressive (and extremely costly and slow) to have to sync to an HD deck for video playback during client mix reviews.

[AVGuru1]

I don't see this happening anytime soon...that is, HDV support.

Avid still has issues outputting HDV and still using Break out Boxes. It can't do it with a Mojo w/o a mode change, and even Avid's high end solutions (Adrenaline, Symphony, Nitris)...none of them can output HDV at full quality while in an edit mode to an external monitor.

HDV is very CPU intensive (think about it..an uncompressed HD Stream is about 160MB/Sec (10bit), then compress that to 3MB/sec), and if PT already has to have an offset for DV material...wow.

One HD solution is using the DVI port on the back of a Mac to an HD monitor, or to a video converter, like an AJA DVI-HDSDI converter. Or, virtual VTR and offload the HD video playback to another machine with a video capture playback board.

I also hate to say it, but it's true: HDV is NOT a professional format. I have not found many - if any - facilites that will except it as a master. It is consumer at best. It is a format found on consumer/prosumer cameras, has a horribly long GOP structure, deck control is not frame accurate (let alone doing reliable assemble edits) and c'mon - has RCA jacks on it

I think a less intensive CPU format - perhaps the new Pro Res, in time, may be a choice...but I do not see Digi using a FCP codec when they have their own version..DNxHD - we must take into consideration the video devices PT is designed to work with - Avid I/O. They simply can't do it.

[Richard Fairbanks]

HDV is NOT a professional format. I have not found many - if any - facilites that will except it as a master. It is consumer at best. It is a format found on consumer/prosumer cameras, has a horribly long GOP structure, deck control is not frame accurate (let alone doing reliable assemble edits) and c'mon - has RCA jacks on it

Sony HVR-1500 provides "professional" digital and analog connections, including AES-3 and SDI, and frame accurate timecode input/output and RS422 control, plays DV(SP), DV25, DVCam, and HDV, and records all but DV25. Its most serious flaw is that it does not insert audio onto HDV tapes, only DVCam. I agree with the sentiment of this thread and while I would also enjoy working with HD images while editing dog barks, but high def doesn't make anything sound better, and it takes a lot of horsepower that can rob the audio processes. With a downside like that, and no upside except ego stroking, I'm not feeling the love yet. Maybe commercials are different.

[AVGuru1]

Thanks for the addition, Richard.

Yes, the 1500 does have the often missing RS422 control and SDI spigots. I don't know where I'd be without the Miranda converter box to convert HDV to a baseband SDI source for the other decks! I also do not classify the 1500 as being in the consumer / prosumer HDV level, as far as decks go. It's the creme of the crop. You can spend several thousand dollars on a SVHS deck...doesn't mean the format is any better.

I still stand by the assessment of HDV, as a format, is not a professional format. The "features" that is has in order to be affordable and available to the consumer seriously hamper it's ability to be a highly usable format in a post world.

[Richard Fairbanks]

I still stand by the assessment of HDV, as a format, is not a professional format. The "features" that is has in order to be affordable and available to the consumer seriously hamper it's ability to be a highly usable format in a post world.

You're probably right, except that it is so cheap compared to HDCam that I think it will become important. Since DVCam has become the new "common denominator" post picture format (like BetaSP has been, and U-matic before that) it makes sense.

Anyhow, playing HD video through the same system as the audio is not the best approach these days. Digi has already announced and exhibited an HD system that is integrated with Pro Tools. The downside is that it requires a dedicated computer, but that's not so bad is it?

[Sonsey]

You're probably right, except that it is so cheap compared to HDCam that I think it will become important. Since DVCam has become the new "common denominator" post picture format (like BetaSP has been, and U-matic before that) it makes sense.

Anyhow, playing HD video through the same system as the audio is not the best approach these days. Digi has already announced and exhibited an HD system that is integrated with Pro Tools. The downside is that it requires a dedicated computer, but that's not so bad is it?

Most HD broadcasters will NOT accept material on HDV as a "High-Def" Master... some go so far as to not even accept it as an acquisition format (although exactly HOW they would know if it was properly upconverted is beyond me...). DVCProHD is generally considered the "lowest" form allowed, and PT will playback DVCProHD 720p files just peachy (I'm in the middle of posting a movie in that format), at least with QT Playback on my Quad G5. Of course if you want 1080 (i or p) then a second computer is still the way to go. I'm curious to try ProRes... but I haven't had an opportunity to test it with PT yet.

[AVGuru1]

Unless your system is really up to date....(Late model G5 or Intel) AND you purchased FCP....you wont even be able to view Pro Res. Plus, as I mentioned, even though the Mojo is now opened up to QT and not just Avid codecs, I can still see Avid (read: Digi) perhaps being hesitant to support Pro Res - which a direct competitor to DNxHD...plus, Pro Res is not supported on the Windows side, whereas DNxHD is.

Perhaps the Video Satellite option will help...

[potatohead]

How about DVCProHD?

Phil

[AVGuru1]

I do not *think* DVCProHD is supported natively by QT on a Mac without an application that uses DVCProHD. For example, FCP installs this codec. If I'm right on that, then a backdoor could be to install the P2 viewer software from Panasonic. Since the HVX series of cameras rfecord in DVCProHD, that codec may allow you to pay it within a QT window. Heck, FCP Express has it as a codec...and cheaper than the full FC Studio.

Also, as I'm sure you know, DVCProHD will not play out of the 1394 port...and in my experience really slows down the performance of a PT session when it's on the timeline. REALLY slows it down.

[minister]

I also hate to say it, but it's true: HDV is NOT a professional format. I have not found many - if any - facilites that will except it as a master. It is consumer at best. It is a format found on consumer/prosumer cameras, has a horribly long GOP structure, deck control is not frame accurate (let alone doing reliable assemble edits) and c'mon - has RCA jacks on it

As I learned a few months ago, this is correct.

Your video card drivers operate by means of single discrete frames. HDV is a "Long-GOP" (Group of Pictures) codec. It breaks down quickly on compositing, etc. A Simple Video Out solution, Like Kona TV does not deliver it to the physical output of the card. In other words, it doesn't play. But Final Cut will interpolate it for you and manage to get it out the card. but at a CPU price.

HD demands a lot of data be pushed through pipe. Digi solutions i am sure are being considered, but getting all that data into and out of a session is likely very problematic.