Track counts and eq automatization for film mixing

[CropShoppeNY]

First Post. Be gentle.
We're working on our first post job for an independent feature and we've hit a snag. Our dialogue has been separated in Pro Tools 11.0.1 as per John Purcell's book, "Dialogue Editing for Motion Pictures: A Guide to the Invisible Art" as well as smoothed out and leveled. We have just purchased the Waves Gold Bundle as well as RX3 Advanced.

Our question is this: what's next? We could clean each individual clip, condense each scene onto a max of 3-4 tracks per scene, not reusing tracks(un-checkerboarding as we go) and eq separately, but that would bring us up to around 36 dialog tracks for the longest reel. We could automate plugin information from scene to scene but we can't seem to find out how to proceed with this. We just can't find any information out there regarding the next steps before mastering. Believe me, we've looked.

We have a tremendous amount of respect for those of you out there who have taken the time to figure these things out- any information or direction would be greatly and humbly appreciated. The job WILL get done and it WILL sound great; we just want to do it right.

Thanks

iMac 27-inch 3.4 GHz i7 with 32 GB RAM running the latest OS X and Pro Tools 11.0.1(we're waiting to upgrade for the TCE and XForm updates as soon as we have extra time)

[joachim]

Just to make sure : PT 11 HD ?

Why 36 Dia tracks ?

[JKD99]

Hi,
There are a MANY ways to set up your tracks for mixing, with myriad possibilities for routing and subgroups and VCAs and stuff, but just to get you going, try this.
36 DX tracks sounds way too wide, ie, too many tracks.
I'm guessing at the size of film you're working on, but you could probably do it easily with 6-12.
Insert your EQ/Dynamics etc on each of your DX tracks, then make sure that all the plugin parameters are automation-enabled. There's a little button in each plug in window, or there's a preference....something like "Plug-ins default to Automation-Enable All Parameters" or something that will do it any time you insert a plugin.
It sounds like, as you learned from John's book, you've split your tracks correctly but with the plugins completely automated you'll be able to condense those down substantially and not have to split them out so wide.
You'll be automating not only volume, but EQ, Compression, reverb send levels etc for every single clip in the film, so if you've already done a Volume pass, you could disable Volume automation and just write your EQs, working your way through the film....learn the various Automation modes and find the way that works best for you, and SAVE OFTEN.

Hope that helped a bit, good luck!!!

best,

Joe

[Cheesehead]

That does seem a lot of Dialogue tracks!

I usually have 16 tops with automated EQ's on each one. Also some dummy tracks to put stuff on I don't need.

If you're not using PTHD, you're going to have a headache with the amount of automation you'll need to do.

But then if you've got one or 2 good boom tracks and a great Recordist, it can be very simple.

Horses for courses.

[mgoorevich]

As said above, try to limit your self to something logical e.g. 8-12 tracks.
Then have 2 mono verbs and maybe 1 stereo (for special DX effect).
Have a dedicated DX mono bus for all your audio tracks. Have a Master DX LCR track where your DX bus, verbs mono and stereo go.
On DX mono bus insert WNS or similar kind of Noise Reduction plug in (assuming you have no access to Cedar ;-)
Each dialog track should have 3 sends. 1- verb mono A, 2- verb mono B, 3- verb Stereo.
Each dialog may contain Notch EQ and Correcting EQ. But this is up to you, Some have only DMG Equilibrium for both purposes.
You may insert compressors or de-esser, although I am not a big fan of it.

Most important mix your dialog on a the film calibrated Mix stage. Other wise you are wasting your time as it will sound absolutely different in the cinema.

My personal advise if you use Waves, don't use Renaisance stuff. Instead use EQ10 for EQ, C1 for compression or C4 for noise reduction. Don't use verbs from Gold - they are not phase coherent.

And still I would highly recommend you to hire an experienced mixer for your first feature. This way you'll learn much more and your film will sound better anyways.

Good luck!

[JSPurcell]

On a “normal” film, I usually use 12–14 tracks for the main dialogue, and then toss in what’s needed for ADR, X, PFX, and odd work tracks. Plus, there are tracks for the “outs” that I don’t want in the edit but lack the courage to delete. There are many good reasons for keeping your track count down, some mentioned above. Add to that the fact that you must always understand what's going on with your tracks. One way to do this is to maintain good visual organization. This will help you better grasp what your tracks are up to, what they need, and how you can help them out. Plus, it makes it easier to "read" the scene. In general, less tracks are easier to comprehend than are more tracks (up to a point, of course).
Everyone above has good suggestions about how to manage your automation and processing, so I’m not going to touch that one.

Good luck.

[Henchman]

I suggest you hire someone local with experience to help you out.
Since laying out your tracks is the easiest thing, it's only going to get worse from here on out.

[garnoil]

Good thing you are reading books and learning but really consider getting some pro help, hire someone that can guide you along in your studio, it sounds like you have way too much on your plate at this stage of your career. It appears that the director producer of the feature must also be very inexperienced (since they hired you to do this job knowing that you are just starting, and this is in no way a bad comment towards you, it is just a fact that they are inexperienced) but, their inexperience will also work against you. Inexperienced directors/producers are "the ones" that need to work with very experienced post people. They need to be guided through all disciplines audio and video post, color, international deliverables, DCP, final packaging, etc.

[fork-media]

for me

16 tracks max for dialog ( per language - i mostly have 2 versions of a film to mix cantonese and mandarin )

I tend to run the first 8 as location sound the other 8 as dubbing.. ( less work on the Eq if u can generally leave each main actor on the same channel

personally I like to run my aux send prefade.


foley I run 16 tracks

mono fx x 8
stereo x 8

ambience 4 mono panned sharp to center speaker..
6 stereo


defintely get submasters running.. will make life easier later.

[Branko]

As Henchman said, the best way to learn is to watch someone experienced in action.
In the past, during the dark ages of large format analog consoles, there were two main reasons for going that wide in editing: 1 - lack of automation and 2 - routing.
Today, you can automate everything, so there's no reason for going that wide, providing there are no clashes of different camera angles on the same track.
Using the "copy automation" feature on modern DAWs and consoles, you can quickly apply settings to similar clips on different tracks. Automated routing can resolve any problem with clips placed on wrong tracks, or you can just slide them to the right track inside your DAW.
I have also noted you plan to "clean every clip" as your first step in mixing.
Are you sure it needs cleaning? Have you listened carefully? Is the background noise really changing so dramatically from one angle to another? Don't kill your sound before you begin to mix!
Another thing I couldn't understand:

that would bring us up to around 36 dialog tracks for the longest reel

What has reel length to do with the number of dialogue tracks?
Best wishes for your mix and don't be afraid to ask.