2024.3.1 Midi recording delay (Latency??)

[gills]

Hmm I was just posting about this problem a few days ago:
https://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=...2&postcount=48

But I'm on 2024.3.0 and this is happening. It was my understanding this is how it's always been.

You hear notes late when you play live (by whatever latency amount is introduced by the session or delay compensation setting), but it prints them exactly when you hit them on the keyboard.

Originally Posted by Shefi

Just for the knowledge :
After deleting Pro Tools 2024.3.1 ( using the Uninstall Pro Tools.command) I installed the 2023.12.1 and everything is working like it always was.
Somehow with the new Midi Chain, Midi Plugins etc.. Backward compatibility to session created with previous versions was lost.
I wish there was a detailed Midi settings..

I'm not on 2024.3 or .1 yet but maybe there is a setting that needs to be changed in the MIDI chain settings dialogue.
In my brief perusing of the new features there are a couple changes to the flow of things & some new settings that might need to be set a certain way in different workflow situations.
But can't recall at the moment.
I think what I read pertains relates more to how the MIDI channels send data to other VI's and how MIDI Thru works.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by gills

Hmm I was just posting about this problem a few days ago:
https://duc.avid.com/showpost.php?p=...2&postcount=48

But I'm on 2024.3.0 and this is happening. It was my understanding this is how it's always been.

You hear notes late when you play live (by whatever latency amount is introduced by the session or delay compensation setting), but it prints them exactly when you hit them on the keyboard.

I'm confused by your description.

Pro Tools has historically not ADC corrected for plugin audio latency on instrument tracks. It won't add latency "introduced by the delay compensation setting" to an instrument track itself. The latency you hear on an instrument track should be the real signal flow latency through that track to the output. Things get complex if you flow the instrument track into aux/busses etc. where ADC is applied for plugins, but if you want to track with low latency audio you would not do that if there is latency on those paths. You should be looking at what is going on, e.g. the ADC section of the Mix window will give you a good picture of what latencies are and that instrument tracks themselves are not being compensated.

There have been no-end of MIDI and audio latency issues, and you may well be running into them, but I suspect you would benefit by trying to recreate what you think is happening in a trivial session.

[strawb]

Originally Posted by Shefi

Just for the knowledge :
After deleting Pro Tools 2024.3.1 ( using the Uninstall Pro Tools.command) I installed the 2023.12.1 and everything is working like it always was.
Somehow with the new Midi Chain, Midi Plugins etc.. Backward compatibility to session created with previous versions was lost.
I wish there was a detailed Midi settings..

same midi delay issue here. except it was 2024.3 that had the issue. rolling back to 2023.12.1 fixed it. avid tech support said it was most likely a "3rd party plugin". how can that be if it's fine in an earlier version of protools.

i guess i will not be trying the new update 2024.3.1 which is supposed to fix all this. what a mess.

[Shefi]

2024.3.1 is the same.
I had to go back to 2023.12.1 in order to fix that. And the delay is not the audio but in the notes location on the recorded midi track. you can clearly SEE it.
I believe it has to do with the midi chain that changed the whole midi channel output selection..
AVID?? Anyone?? Please let us an option to choose the routing of the midi channel as it was before 2024.3

Originally Posted by Shefi

2024.3.1 is the same.
I had to go back to 2023.12.1 in order to fix that. And the delay is not the audio but in the notes location on the recorded midi track. you can clearly SEE it.
I believe it has to do with the midi chain that changed the whole midi channel output selection..
AVID?? Anyone?? Please let us an option to choose the routing of the midi channel as it was before 2024.3

Thanks for verifying a MIDI delay and not just audio.

[gills]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

I'm confused by your description.

Pro Tools has historically not ADC corrected for plugin audio latency on instrument tracks. It won't add latency "introduced by the delay compensation setting" to an instrument track itself. The latency you hear on an instrument track should be the real signal flow latency through that track to the output. Things get complex if you flow the instrument track into aux/busses etc. where ADC is applied for plugins, but if you want to track with low latency audio you would not do that if there is latency on those paths. You should be looking at what is going on, e.g. the ADC section of the Mix window will give you a good picture of what latencies are and that instrument tracks themselves are not being compensated.

There have been no-end of MIDI and audio latency issues, and you may well be running into them, but I suspect you would benefit by trying to recreate what you think is happening in a trivial session.

Lol sorry my bad, I meant the "buffer size" setting. This video from another user illustrates what I and the OP are describing:
https://youtu.be/aVhZedAm6Pw?si=w9funeH8XWo1Ju2X
(Although I disagree with him that this is what Pro Tools "should" be doing).

To reiterate, the problem is that if there *is* latency introduced somehow, then what you hear when you play/record MIDI is not what gets printed. What you hear is delayed notes but what gets printed is non-delayed notes.

I did some testing in a trivial session as you suggested, and I admittedly can't actually tell with the buffer size. But it does exist if latency is present, like you say, from plugins in the chain. It becomes a problem in the gray area of just-little-enough latency that we can intuitively self-correct by playing early so that the notes come out on-beat. However much we can do that is how much the notes get printed early.

[JohnRivers]

This is really bad! I have the same problem and virtually the same set-up with an M2 Mac Studio, OS 13.6.4, PT 2024.3.1.
MIDI recording is now impossible as it plays back with a quite considerable delay.
What on earth is Avid playing at?!
This need fixing fast!!

[Robruce]

Originally Posted by gills

This video from another user illustrates what I and the OP are describing:
https://youtu.be/aVhZedAm6Pw?si=w9funeH8XWo1Ju2X

Excellent methodology in that video.
Using a mic and recording the stick hitting the pad is a brilliant primary benchmark. Also, showing the reprinted audio of the previously recorded MIDI performance is useful to see. Anyone wrestling with PT/MIDI might wanna check the video out.

btw, regarding VI latency in general, The 'Virtual Channels' (on UA's Apollo/Console for example) have a much faster audio response time (for 'live' performing/recording any VI), compared with 'live' auditioning/recording a VI through PT itself.

While it can't alter how PT behaves it's an enormous improvement in 'feel' for the player. idk if any 'virtual channels' are available within OP's
interface.

[masterplan]

Originally Posted by JohnRivers

This is really bad! I have the same problem and virtually the same set-up with an M2 Mac Studio, OS 13.6.4, PT 2024.3.1.
MIDI recording is now impossible as it plays back with a quite considerable delay.
What on earth is Avid playing at?!
This need fixing fast!!

Yes, same here.
Impossible to record midi since the notes end up late if there’s latency in the session.
This bug has been coming and going over the years.
It’s hard to believe it’s back….
Avid, come on!!
This is embarrassing.