Using Venue as a Monitor Console

[greggd]

Hey all,

I am trying to figure out the best way to set up my monitor console. I have yet to purchase so I am open to what I might need to acquire.

Here is what I have so far (wish list):

• Profile System
• 2 stage boxes
• 96 in 32 out
• 2 aviom cards
• Loaded with Massey plugs ; )

I am trying to wrap my brain around the best way to do this. I need:

• 3 stereo IEM mixes
• 6 mono IEM mixes
• 4 wedge mixes
• 1 choir mix via radio transmitter
• would like to have 2 verbs and 1 DLA
• Rhythm aviom (Drums gtrs bass, perc)
• Keys aviom (Keys, organ,etc)

So that makes 20 auxes right? I can use 16 auxes plus 8 vari groups. Right?

Then… How do I make my aviom “groups”? Matrixes? I know Yamaha has the aux like matrix which helps in this situation. How about Venue? I cant seem to find out.

Here is what I want as far as my aviom setup:
Rhythm:

01. Kick – Dir out
02. Snare – Dir out
03. Drum mix– group / matrix 1?
04. Perc mix - group / matrix 2?
05. Bass– Dir out
06. E gtr 1 – Dir out
07. E gtr 2– Dir out
08. Ac gtr 1– Dir out
09. Ac gtr 2 – Dir out
10. Brass – group / matrix 3?
11. Piano
12. Keys
13. Organ
14. Amb – group / matrix 4?
15. Emcee – group / matrix 5?
16. House Tie

Keys:

01. Kick – Dir out
02. Snare – Dir out
03. Drum mix - group / matrix 1?
04. Perc mix - group / matrix 2?
05. Bass– Dir out
06. E gtr mix – group / matrix 6?
07. A gtr mix – group / matrix 7?
08. Brass – group / matrix 3?
09. Piano L
10. Piano R
11. Keys L
12. Keys R
13. Organ
14. Amb – group / matrix 4?
15. Emcee – group / matrix 5?
16. House Tie

Is this possible?

Please give me some guidance…

thanks
Gregg

[bcs723]

Gregg
You can use the Matrixes and also, don't forget your PQ mixes, you can still use them even when you're not using PQ controllers. There are 8 matrixes and 8 PQ mixers, each one of these is configurable using any of the 8 console groups, the Left, Center & Right and also up to 8 user assignable directs. The catch to the User channels is there are only 8 total available in each set of mixers.(8-matrixes & 8 different in the PQ's) Right now I am using this to the max to keep from burning auxes and giving my aviom users a more customizable mix than just sending them the house groups. You are in a little different situation not using the rig for FOH, so you could just send them groups and build the mix to suit them.
Example - I am using 1 matrix for a Perc mix, assigning his 4 inputs as user assignable channels and mixing them to his liking and assigning that output to an Aviom channel. (Same thing with BGV's) In my PQ mixers I am doing some combining for musicians, 1 gtr player uses 2 amps and he wants them both in 1 Aviom channel or 1 keyboard player is using 2 keyboards and doesn't mind them being together to save channels. I am making them user channels and mixing them for the musician and sending the output to an Aviom channel.

I am still using having to use an aux for larger mixes like drums (using 12 channels) I saw you were wanting to do drums, perc, Brass, etc. though matrixes so I think you will have a hard time doing this.
Just remember across the matrix and PQ mixers you only have 16 total user channels and if you are using variable groups I don't know that you will have group options in the mixers so you will be limiting yourself. I think you can make it happen but you will need to burn auxes for bigger mixes such as drums.

Finally, the only difference I see in the 2 Avioms is the keys aviom getting stereo Piano and Keys and grouping the gtrs.
If I were you I would desperately try to get those piano players to live with mono, it would make your world much easier. But that's just my opinion

Bradley

[greggd]

Thanks for the help... However even if I ditch stereo keys I still dont have enough. In the software it seems that there are only 8 user channels per 8 channels of matrixes and the same with PQ. I know I have a lot of stuff going on but it seems there would be a software update that would make this possible.

Just kinda bums me out...

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi Greg,

I think you're on the right track w/ using a combination of auxes, var groups, directs and matrix/PQ. Give us a bit more info on exactly how many channels are included in each grouping and we can help further refine the layout (I'm optimistic it will all fit).

How many individual channels need to be mixed within these stems you've identified:
Drum mix
Perc mix
Brass
Amb
Emcee
E gtr mix
A gtr mix

Sheldon

[ThomasPMusic]

I think some "lo-tech" thinking is in order.
Give the keyboard guy a small mixer. (VLZ1202, etc...) and go line out of his aviom into 1 stereo channel, then go thru the direct boxes into 2 other stereo (or 4 mono) channels with his 2 keyboards. 1 aviom circuit ad he'll add his keys in stereo at his headphone mixer. Will also sound better as avioms have wimpy headphone amps. That way your venue world will be simpler. He'll also be able to work on his keyboards while the console is off or re-booting. Just a thought. What do you think?

Tom Petroski
Audio Coordinator
Bent Tree Bible Fellowship.

[greggd]

OK. Here it goes.

Drum mix:

1. Kick
2. Snare
3. Hat
4. Tom1
5. Tom 2
6. Tom 3
7. Oh L
8. Oh R

Perc mix:

1. Conga 1
2. Conga 2
3. Perc Oh

Brass:

1. Sax
2. Trumpet
3. Bone

Amb:

1. Amb stg L
2. Amb stg R

Emcee:

1. Hand Held 1
2. Hand Held 2
3. HDST

E gtr mix:

1. E gtr 1
2. E gtr 2

A gtr mix:

1. Ac gtr 1
2. Ac gtr 2


Thanks for the help.

[Sheldon Radford]

Hi,

Here's one possible arrangement that will work. Check it out...

Use all 16 auxes and 8 Variable Groups for:
3 stereo IEM mixes
6 mono IEM mixes
4 wedge mixes
1 choir mix via radio transmitter
2 reverbs and
1 Delay
1 Drum submix (Hat, Toms, OH L&R - don't include Kick and Snare since these are already available as separate channels on the Aviom)
1 Percussion submix (Conga 1&2, OH)
1 Brass submix (Sax, Trpt, Bone)
1 Emcee submix (HH1 & 2, HDST)

That covers alot of it, but there are still a few channels that need to be submixed down to mono. Do this using a few matrixes. Start by assigning the following eight input channels to the User inputs of the matrix section:
Piano L & R
Keys L & R
E gtr 1 & 2
A gtr 1 & 2

Now create the mono stems:
Matrix 1 = Piano downmix (Piano L&R)
Matrix 2 = Keys downmix (Keys L&R)
Matrix 3 = E Gtr downmix (E gtr 1 & 2)
Matrix 4 = A Gtr downmix (A gtr 1 & 2)

Now put it all together for the Aviom systems. Changes from your previous patch are highlighted.

Rhythm:
01. Kick – Dir out
02. Snare – Dir out
03. Drum mix– Aux
04. Perc mix - Aux
05. Bass– Dir out
06. E gtr 1 – Dir out
07. E gtr 2– Dir out
08. Ac gtr 1– Dir out
09. Ac gtr 2 – Dir out
10. Brass – Aux
11. Piano - Matrix 1
12. Keys - Matrix 2
13. Organ - Dir Out (if single ch?)
14. Amb – see note below
15. Emcee – Aux
16. House Tie

Keys:
01. Kick – Dir out
02. Snare – Dir out
03. Drum mix - Aux
04. Perc mix - Aux
05. Bass– Dir out
06. E gtr mix – Matrix
07. A gtr mix – Matrix
08. Brass – Aux
09. Piano L - Dir out
10. Piano R - Dir out
11. Keys L - Dir out
12. Keys R - Dir out
13. Organ - Dir out (?)
14. Amb – see note below
15. Emcee Aux
16. House Tie

Now...what to do with the two ambient mics feeding the Aviom system? Two options:
- it's a mono feed to the Aviom anyway, so just use one of the mics and feed it via a Direct Out
- assign the two ambient mics as user inputs for the PQ section (which can have 8 user inputs separate from the Matrix user inputs), and use a PQ channel to downmix to mono. Use one side of the stereo PQ output to feed the Aviom.

Other ideas:
- Channel direct outs can be used to feed plug-in effects, so keep this in mind if you find you're using an aux bus to send a single channel to a reverb or delay.
- Matrixes and PQs can also feed plug-in effects. Consider this approach if you have fewer than 8 input channels that need to feed a single effect.

I'm sure there are many variations along the lines of what's described above. Hope this helps...

Sheldon