new to the game

[manis]

Hi, I am doing honours in post sound at uni. back ground is musician.

I Mac 24 inch screen and PT LE 7.3.1

I have to do a 60 second commercial for TV, budget $50,000 I am in charge of location sound and post sound.

I know this is a broad question but I would really appreciate and broad tips on what I should do and what I should watch for.

I understand the basics i have done a little location sound at uni but our sound person is actually trained in camera?? So she is helpful but it is second hand info, she rings up people in the business to get info as she needs it.

there is inside and outside recording.., from grannies to football.., it is a commercial about 'appreciate volunteers' or something like that, people who help others for free (a worthy commercial I think.)

ANY tips, no matter how basic would be great.

[smsjr]

Some questions for you.

What are your deliverables? Stereo, 5.1?
How much dialogue is there?
What location recording gear do you plan on using?
Are you responsible for creating music, sound design, etc?

Things to watch out for.

Make sure you have a good quicktime movie to work from, preferably with window burn.

Make sure you get clean dialogue recordings. Use a quality mic with quality pre so that if you do fantastic sound design, it's not overshadowed by bad dialogue. You'll end up needing to do ADR if it comes out really bad.

Make sure you can meet all of the tech specs and deliverables.

Best of luck with the project. Sounds like fun.

Steve

[manis]

thanks steve, you do not know how much you have helped me.

these are exactly the sorts of things I need to know but forget when put on the spot.

I am doing the music, basically I can produce music well but I am not sure how much that helps in post sound. I have done a number of docos for uni and it seems a piece of cake.., but I am wary of things that look like a piece of cake when I know dam well they are not.., it means the are many things I do not know yet.

your questions have put me on the right track.., and I can even sound intelligent when asked about it LOL.

thanks again

err, what is window burn?

[manis]

the questions, are they for me to consider or do you actually want to know?

[FajitaTone]

Window Burn is a window overlaid on the picture that contains the running timecode of what you are watching.


Make sure you also get enough "wild sound" so that if you need to add "ambience" it doesn't sound looped. 60 sec. should be enough.

[georgia]

Make sure you find out exactly what your shooting on and what the format is going to be. Also find out what the final deliverables are. Are you shooting on Digibeta? BetaSP. HDV, DVcam, DVCpro50, HDcam, 35mm film? What frame rates are you shooting at 23,976, 29,97drop, 24 ? Are you going to have to deal with pullups/pulldowns... What sample rate will you be reecording at? Are you required to record sound during production to camera or dual system? How many people are speaking in the shots? Will you be required to provide a sound team ( recordist, stick man, A2 ) or just you? How many tracks are you recording to? Do you need to lock the sound recorder to timecode? How much control do you have over the location? Can you do a tech scout prior to the gig to figure out sound issues and possible solutions? Once your audio is recorded, how is it going to get sunk back to the picture and what system are they editing on? Do you have to do the the dailies and deal with that or is that getting taken care of by someone at the video house? Who's doing the toning sessions and documentation for ADR...and who is doing the ADR?
Whats the final output going to be DOLBY 5.1 AC3, DOLBY-E ( probably).. Plus the usual LrRt mixes and stems if the ad is international. Do you need to make the mix meet any broadcast standards like FOX, HDnet, NATION GEO, NBC, CBS? Everybody's delivery specs are different... Do you have a LM100 for Dialnorm requirements? if you are going to post at NTSC 29.97 you my need a downconvert and you will need windowburn with potentiall both 23.976 abd 29.97drop...maybe not.

Just wanted to rattle your cage a bit, so you don't get blindsided....Some of these questions are easy to deal with once you know the variables: Like if your shooing 23,976 on HDCAM for a HDCAM HD commercial for FOX you will probably be shooting 1080i 23,976 at 48Khz 16bit and depending on the number of players you might get away with a wireless mic and a stick.. Your delivery will be DOLBY-E and LtRt with a dialnorm level of -27dbfs... (just an example) If your shooting DVCpro50 you're probably shooting 720p and you might have some sync issues.... If you're shooting 29.97 nondrop Digibeta is a snap, if your shooting 35mm it's more complicated.
cheers
geo

[manis]

wow.., rattle my cage!? Is an understatement.., but I'm loving it. Obviously some of these tech things I know about and some I have never heard about.

I don't think it will go national.., I'm in south Australia.., sooo.., PAL 25 fps 48K 16 bit. HD I think.., I better find out what camera is used.., do the differant makes of camera matter or is it just the format I need to worry about. That's about as technical as I can be so you can see how much you might have rattled me. I can look these things up and find out what they are.., 'dialnorm' ..??

deliverables?? Is that a general term for all these things you guys have mentioned.., or is it specific to something? (yes, film school is a bit of a joke) I am going to read through these letters a couple of hundred times and I will be back with questions asap.., in hope of more help. I have learnt more with these letters in three days than three years at uni (doing 4th now). I'm 50 but as a musician there is a lot about post I never had to know. I repeat what I said earlier.., 'doing the docos seemed easy, but that scares me cause I know there's a lot more to it and I dont know what it is'.., these letters from fellow post people have proven me correct.., I know actually nothing. Yes.., a shaken cage LOL

thanks both of you very much

[manis]

as usual, questions bring not only answers but more questions..??

hoping someone can help so I can go to uni looking like a 'real' post sound person (despite the fact they expect me to know this stuff without them actually showing me anything except film technique.)

1) what is; toning for ADR (I know waht ADR is, theoretically)

2) what are 'pull ups and pull downs'

3) dual system (I can guess it means using another recorder other than the camera, like a DAT system?)

4) LM100 for 'dailnorms' what is a 'dialnorm.'

5) this seems a very dumb question but just in case; why is it important to know how many people are in dialogue, this may be obvious OR, it may be obvious to you.., if you know what I mean

any help is very much appreciated.., I'm alone here, I know more than the lecturer's about Protools.., that might give yo an idea of the situation I am in.., good (or any??) post people are hard to find.

I gather the equipment used dictates the technique used.., different for every situation, so I understand the importance put on 'what kind of gear is being used'

cheers.

[georgia]

Down under huh... I have an aussie here doing post with us! She started as an intern here

First off besides reading the gzillions of great posts here go to www.gearslutz.com they have a post forum that alot of the gang here are on as well....

1) what is; toning for ADR (I know waht ADR is, theoretically)

In our ADR sessions we meet with the director and post supervisor or producer(s) to determine what
needs to be done. Once the ADR list is deternimed. We create an ADR script for each actor. Included in our doc is the line "as shot" and the timecode for the line. We create a protools ADR session. In this session we create dialog tracks from production, ADR tracks for each actor, and tone tracks. On the TONE tracks we create 3 beeps ( we use 1 khz, -30dbfx for 1 frame ) on the seconds before the very first sound of the first word. ie: a thre count beep, beep, beep, word or phrase. We tone every single line. we use sometimes 1 and sometimes 10 or more tone tracks. ( due to the count down overlapping a predious or upcoming ount down or over previous or upcoming dialogue. We simply mute what we don't need for the take. So toning for an animation can take hours and hours, toning for a commercial might take 20 minutes... and it's only if its for sync on camera. or timing for a directorial decision.

PS: there are software systems out there that do this more automatically, but we're a small shop and don't have that set of toys as yet.

2) what are 'pull ups and pull downs'

there are different pullups and pull down's ranging for going from video to film or from film to video and even some screwy double meaning like for the 20+/- frames at the end of a film reel.
Instead of just rewritting tihs, do a search here and at gearslutz... there's tons of data on these.

3) dual system (I can guess it means using another recorder other than the camera, like a DAT system?)

You can record sound into the camera if desired and available ( single system ) or you can record to an external sound recording system ( dual system ) or you can even do both.

4) LM100 for 'dailnorms' what is a 'dialnorm.'

the simple answer is the average level of Dialogue ONLY during a period of time. again, this is discussed at lenght on gearslutz and here... There's a whole bunch of data on dialnorm at my post corner on gearslutz...

5) this seems a very dumb question but just in case; why is it important to know how many people are in dialogue, this may be obvious OR, it may be obvious to you.., if you know what I mean

...becuase of you are shooting 1 person in front of the camera you only need a single mic. If you shooting a bunch of people talking to each other or a group of people you will need more and specific mics and gear.

any help is very much appreciated.., I'm alone here, I know more than the lecturer's about Protools.., that might give yo an idea of the situation I am in.., good (or any??) post people are hard to find.

join this forum ( which you have ) and gearslutz post-production forum and ask questions! and/or buy books! and finally get an internship somewhere before you shoot yourself in the foot.

I gather the equipment used dictates the technique used.., different for every situation, so I understand the importance put on 'what kind of gear is being used'



cheers
geo

[manis]

well.., ask a silly question..?? man, what can I say.., thanks and thank god you have an ozzy doing an intern with you (so you know waht nice people we are LOL), I'm jealous.., sounds a dream for an ozzy interested in sound to end up doing an internship in NY. I checked your site.., you call that a small shop??

I did check a few things last night but you have solidified my conclusions., pull downs, ect. Dial norn had me stumped..., anyway all questions answered and thanks so much.

I have been trying to get hold of books, (good to see I have the right idea) they seem hard to get, but i have some on order, if you can suggest any??

'Internship before I shoot myself in the foot'.., goodness you are on the ball.., I nearly already have. I won an award (undergrad) at uni last year and someone thought that meant I knew what I was doing.., gave me a CG film to post and score.., he expected John Williams for free in 3 weeks, I got half of it done (20 min movie) and could see I was going to lose face if I continued trying to look as though i knew what I was doing on a Pro level.., its lucky my 'skills' as a musician pulled what I did do though. I pulled out and let him use what i had done, it was getting too complicated , he gave me what I assume is some post sound album (CD, whatever, you know what I mean) 'greatest dramas' and expected me to emulate them?? (in three weeks)

I got flattered into this post sound honours course and the 'lecturer' said HE would find me one (internship) but I am thinking he did that just to fill the space (post sound) because I am the only person at uni doing post .., I sort of feel out of the picture a bit. As I said my 'supervisor' is a camera person, SHE is very nice but she is on maternity leave and I am left to my own devices with the lecturer back slapping the younger (they are ALL younger) directors and him getting black slapped back (there a tongue twister). Im not very good at backslapping unless its worthy.., so Im not too popular, better change tactic?? not into hero worship at my age.

the way things were, I could have shot myself in the foot at uni, strange they expect me to know all this without telling me. At least at the next meeting I can now confound them with science and gain some respect (sad isnt it ). I had no idea of many of these things.., maybe the lectures dont either. I have spent my life teaching myself what I need to know, i think it is a matter of passion, and passion as survival.

see you on the other site too.

thanks so very much and ask your ozzy intern.., 'owzitgoin' mate?