003 No Standalone Audio 8x2 like the 002?? why

[quadwould]

Or maybe I am wrong and Digi have failed to put in writing.

If the unit is being offered at the same pricepoint, with essentially the same I/O (and word clock) and the addition of some other small bits, then one would assume that it should be able to work as a stand-alone mixer as well. (Just like the 002) Heck, all of the analogue hardware is there for it to function that way.


So Digi, (or anyone else) can you offer some insight?


If currently not standard, could this be a firmware upgrade thing??

[Scott Church]

Hi quadwould,

You can read more about the 003/003R here, in communicating what the 003/003R project was all about (I addressed your specific concern below the quote):

Hi All,

Sorry for this relatively slow response post to what is clearly a headline issue for many DUC citizens – the thread arrived ahead of the actual launch, and I didn’t want to post until after we’d got the official news up on our own website, and given it time to propagate around the world a little.

As several posters have concluded, our intention with the 003 family was to provide a refresh of an already successful product. This is a smaller scale effort than some of the projects we do at Digidesign, and the decision to approach it this way limited our freedom to innovate with features, or change the price.

Why would Digidesign choose to just do a refresh? It’s certainly not our first preference: we’ve come into our current position in the creative world of audio on a foundation of innovation. We’re wired that way still. Even a relatively large company like Digi still has to make tough trade-offs over what to spend time on however, and since the 002’s continue to fit the bill for many users, we decided to go with a refresh. This left us free to pursue some other projects we’d long wanted to do, like the Mbox2 Pro, Mbox Mini, the Profile live console, a lot of Pro Tools feature development, and a bunch of other things I can’t talk about yet.

Despite the constraints of doing a “refresh only” project, we still worked at making improvements to every aspect of the design that we could.

The I/O complement had to remain the same, so the differences in that area are relatively few. The biggest change is in audio quality. The mic pres were completely re-designed, and we upgraded their dynamic range by almost 6dB, and their distortion performance by almost an order of magnitude from 0.004% to 0.0007% (note the three zero’s after the period.)

We found several ways to enhance the 002 control surface as we re-worked it for 003: it now includes dedicated automation controls, and you can use the meters to provide an auto mode status display. The 2-line display provides much better visual feedback for all functions, allowing you to see 6-character channel names at the same time as parameter value readouts. With a jog/shuttle wheel and an external clock input, the product is more at home than before in post production environments. And the updated MIDI mapping mode will make controlling other MIDI apps and devices much more fluid for music producers.

Despite these changes, I can see how this intro is disappointing to existing 002 owners who were looking to upgrade to a product that would take them to the next level. We don’t mean to limit anyone’s options, and clearly the 003 family is not intended to serve that “step-up” purpose – it’s for new users. We understand the desire, though: we are hard at work on products which will allow people to move beyond today’s LE family (whaaaat! like I said, I can’t talk about that stuff!)

I hope this post helps with understanding our moves (I know it won’t help much with the disappointment) and that we are thinking along the same lines as many of you. Despite some of the harsher comments, I’m glad we have such a passionate and engaged customer base – it makes the communication open and easy.

One last note: some of the posters on this thread were concerned that 002 support will be going away with Vista. As we state elsewhere on our website, we’re beavering away at Vista support right now, and I’m glad to confirm that 002 will be fully supported in the forthcoming Vista-compatible release of Pro Tools.

- David

Senior Director, Product Marketing
Digidesign

As for the standalone mode, the feedback we got from end-users is that a majority of them weren't using, and instead wanted a way to use the surface to control other MIDI applications. As a result, we opted to drop (audio) standalone mode for the new MIDI standalone mode which enables the surface to be used as a standalone MIDI control surface for working with other MIDI applications. Anyhow, I understand that isn't what you were hoping to hear, but it has been an improvement for many. As for the surface itself, we really did add some nice enhancements, as I find more cool little things each time I use it

Cheers,
Scott

[trakbytes]

As for the standalone mode, the feedback we got from end-users is that a majority of them weren't using, and instead wanted a way to use the surface to control other MIDI applications. As a result, we opted to drop (audio) standalone mode for the new MIDI standalone mode which enables the surface to be used as a standalone MIDI control surface for working with other MIDI applications.

I'm sorry, Scott, but this is a pretty lame explanation. Here you have a cool little mixer that could be used for a small live PA rig. It even has all the audio circuitry built-in, so it's not as though you had to add anything to keep it as a stand-alone mixer. Yet you decided to take away a major piece of functionality from the previous product it replaces, for the stated reason of making the control surface compatible with "other MIDI applications". Since when is Digidesign concerned about "other MIDI applications?" Does this mean you are going to open up your LE software to work with other interfaces (highly doubtful)? Does this mean that I could use the 003 Factory as a controller for say, Logic or Digital Performer (that, I might be interested in)? I see no reason you had to remove the stand-alone function that apparently worked in the 002. It's not like those faders are actually passing any audio anyway. My guess is that you are coming out with a line of compact mixers and you didn't want to have the 003 conflicting with any of them. Mere spectualation, mind you...

I'm not an LE user, but have many years as a TDM user. I keep considering buying an LE rig for home/portable use, but I haven't liked any of the forced interface options, so I've stayed with other manufacturers that do allow stand-alone mode (in a comparably spec'd yet smaller package). Removing a function I would find useful from your product is yet another reason for me to stay away from LE. Seems this limit to functionality was another arbitrary marketing decision which does nothing to improve the image of this product in the eyes of this consumer.

Bob

[Slim Shady]

There are plent of 002's still for sale if you need that functionality.

[peppertree]

You can get old Mackies very cheeep cheeeeeep cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep if you need that functionality...one less thing for them to debug and I'm happy. I would never bring a studio rig into a live sitch or viceversa.

[drumbar]

DIGI, are you really saying that the new 003 will work as a control surface in DP? This has not been the case in the past. So please explain if this is really the case. If so, that would be pretty huge. I would assume that actually using the 003 as audio interface for DP will still have all the same probs., right? Like crashing etc...

So in DP, am I going to choose HUI or Macki Control for the control surface option when using 003?

thanks

[DigiTechSupt]

The 003 has a MIDI mode where the faders, transport and most of it knobs and switches output MIDI continuous controller data that you can use to control a 3rd party application. There is no HUI or MCU mode per se.

You can get more specific info in the 003 MIDI Mode Guide.

[quadwould]

Right,

I can appriciate that the feedbck indicated that many were not using that function, yet many others were.

Is there not a firmware update that could make it into a basic No EQ, No Dynamics, No Effects mixer? Just a basic 8x2 audio mixer. without the effects of the DIGI002.

It seems that since all of the componentry is there, and audio does flow through it when its plugged into a comp running PT, there should be the posibility of running it in standalone as well.

I think one comment on here said i should get a 002. and here is why not.
First off, is an older pice of kit. Secondly, it doesnt have the scrubwheel. Thirdly if doesnt have the additional buton functions of the 003. Finally, all of the other things like a warranty, Word Clock, second headphone output, design, alternative monitor outputs, etc.

Is there any way to implement this, maybe as a patch.

If enough noise is made in the community, would DIGI listen and make this standard.

[tele_player]

It's possible that there is a constraint on the firmware size in the 003, which could explain these two features (standalone mixer, generic MIDI control surface) becoming an either/or situation.

I owned a Digi002 for two years, and never saw any appeal in using it as a large, clumsy mixer. I'd much rather take a $200 Yamaha to a gig.

[Skytouch]

I use a Mackie 1604 VLZ as a zero-latency source mixer / monitor that does not require Pro Tools to be running. Audio sources are patched from Direct Out 1-8 into a Digi 002R for when I'm running Pro Tools. I would like to replace this setup with a 003 that can run as either a standalone mixer or a MIDI controller (mode change). Perhaps this is a firmware issue as Tele suggested, but if it can be added with a firmware update I'm interested. Sky