Gain vs. Volume Automation

[carterisgod41]

Title says it all. I'm really unsure of how to use both. What I'm bouncing has different loudness than what I'm hearing from the Pro Tools file. If anybody could just give me a simple explanation to help me avoid this problem later, that would be great. Thanks!

[jbasil]

More info, please. : )

Are you listening reimported into the same monitor? IOW, a file bounced from PT and then listened to in iTunes has several gain stage differences in the monitoring of the output.

What's the whole tale? : )

[albee1952]

Some general info to help(relating to working in Pro Tools). Traditionally, GAIN refers to the input level of your preamp. Then there is "GAIN STAGING" which relates to how you set levels thru several devices(or plugins) in an audio chain(think Preamp>EQ>compressor>amp). Then(where it gets a bit confusing) there is the AudioSuite GAIN plugin. This might have been named better as it changes the LEVEL of the audio file(by a db amount). This is very similar to using the AudioSuite Normalize) plugin(which changes the LEVEL by a percentage amount where 100% is using the full 0dbfs volume(not so intuitive). I use the GAIN plugin to level out tracks. This could be raising the level of an entire track that was recorded too softly, or raising/lowering notes or phrases on a vocal track for a more consistent level(I do this BEFORE adding compression, so the compressor works more consistently). Lots to think about here

[carterisgod41]

Ok, so here's the full story...

This is the first song with vox, bass, drums, acoustic gtr, and electric gtr that i've tried to record and mix. Because it was my first time, I had all sorts of gain issues. Basically, the issues were that the gains weren't loud enough and inconsistent as well. So, I added a bunch of gain using trim and the audiosuite plugin. Then, I added some compression as well.

The vox were still way to low, so I automated the volume to make certain parts a little louder and softer. However, when I bounce the file and listen to it in iTunes, the vox aren't any louder. The vox are almost maxed out in volume, and any more gain will cause them to clip. I've tried lowering the other instruments' volumes, but I don't want it to get to the point where people need to crank the hell out of their volume to listen to the song at a reasonable level.

I know it's a lot, but that's the full story! If anybody wants to look at the pro tools file, i can send it. It's absolutely horrendous, lol.

[Stig Eliassen]

The way to do it is to make a great mix in PT, without clipping of course, and then use a compressor and/or a limiter on the full mix to reduce the dynamic range a little. I usually have my entire mix peak around -10 to -6 dbFS on the meters in PT, and then I use the SSL Comp and Massey L2007 to massage the mix, and get some loudness going.

[jbasil]

The missing key here is that you still can raise the master after lowering the instruments. So get the mix right, with the vocals sitting the way you like it. Put a limiter, even both a comp and then a limiter on the master. I'll second PT Lover's suggestion of the Massey plugs. Sound great and very reasonably priced. You can use them in demo mode with no glitch/beep reminder, they just don't retain settings. What you do after having the compressor knock the transients down just a few dbs and only when needed- not constantly, is put the limiter after and have it also just lick the transients down when they jump, not constantly, and then compensate by setting the output to just barely below 0 db. On limiters like the Massey, this output isn't set by how many db you want to add, but rather what the ceiling of the mix will be. The Massey doesn't have numbers so do it by the visual. I usually set the Waves L1 for -.1.

[Stig Eliassen]

The Massey doesn't have numbers so do it by the visual.

It has numeric values in the GUI, but maybe not in the demo version. Click on threshold or output to type in what you want.

[jbasil]

Originally Posted by PT Lover

It has numeric values in the GUI, but maybe not in the demo version. Click on threshold or output to type in what you want.

It may be that or it may be that I just missed how to enter it in my quick once over. Since it was a while ago it also could have been added to the demo since (?) Either way I was very impressed with it. Haven't bought them since I don't really need the redundancy, but for the price I highly recommend the Massey plugs for anyone looking for their first batch of great sounding plugins without spending much money. And since the demo modes are not crippled they're great for new recordists to check out, and then there's no sticker shock and lots of incentive to just plop down the $$$.