What's with ProTool's MIDI Quantizing??

[Capp]

Why is it that the Quantize feature of ProTools seems to make things MORE off the beat rather than less?

My goal with the Quantize feature is simply to have things on the beat...I do a lot of Hip Hop type tracks, so a precise, "mechanical" sound is occasionally OK and preferable

Therefore, how can I achieve this with ProTools MIDI. I came from the world of Opcode, which I still know and love, because Vision's quantize features were always pretty straightforward and worked really well. Now trying to use ProTools MIDI, things are strange. All kinds of catagories like "Swing", "Strength"...I know the basics of what these functions do, but they don't seem to be working right...the music keeps getting quantized in a weird, not straightforward way...

What are the best quantize settings to use to get a basic, "Opcode-style" normal quantize??

[J Blazin]

I use midi in PTLE and have struggled just the same...exactly what is the pre-set for the perfect quantization/timing swing like the MPC [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Well I have yet to find it, in fact I dont rely on quantize as much as before. I get my snare or hat timing correct for the bpm at the time and build around it within a specific grid (ie 1-2), then I move the notes where they should be instead of quantizing, that way I get the notes and timing exactly where I want them. It can kill the flow sometimes but Im use to it now. But anyway, DIGIDESIGN we could use your help on this! It would be nice to have quantize presets like the MPC...so what up DIGI? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[J Blazin]

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[J Blazin]

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[J Blazin]

Are we the only one who have trouble with this? Or most just dont record midi in PTLE so they dont know thw answer, anyone with knowledge on quantizing in PTLE would help!

[The Mighty Burner]

Hmmmm...I've used quantize in PTLE without any problems. Are you trying to quantize midi data that's already been recorded, or are you quantizing midi input during record? Are you in grid mode? The quantization will snap to whatever note subdivision you have selected in the grid...quarter-note, sixteenth, etc...

You can also choose to quantize the attack (start point) or the release (end point), as well as the duration of the note. Generally, I only quantize the start point and deselect the rest, so that only the start point of each note will be aligned to the closest rhythmic grid value.

Another thing you may be interested in is that PT uses a quarter note for it's timing reference point, and then that is subdivided into 480 divisions called "ticks". The duration of each tick will vary according to the tempo - the faster the tempo, the shorter the tick value and vice versa. You can figure out the lenth of a tick in milliseconds using the following formula: One tick = 60,000 / tempo / 480

(there are 60,000ms in a minute, so divide that by your tempo (bpm) and then by 480 (the number of ticks in a quarter-note).

That just FYI...the tick value shouldn't effect whether or not quantization is being performed to your desires...that is purely dependent on what you select in the quantize options dialog window
and the grid value.

Hope this info helps,

[kimaguresound]

hey.

i'm in the same boat as you guys. i use PT because it's the easiest way to get my work from home to studio. first of all the midi timing in PT for some reason is pretty bad. even when drawing a simple beat onto the grid you can hear it slipping in and out. or my favorite example sending a straight click out of the metronome, the timing is embarrassing. it sounds like is broken. i know midi is not %100 accurate, but you shouldn't be able to hear such huge discrepancies.

anyways. i usually record a midi performance with a controller and quantize to %100 and depending on tempo and song up to %20 swing. sometimes i will use the tuplet setting for say, hi-hats in a house track.

i've worked with a lot of guys that use MPCs, i have only messed around a bit with them. but from what i know the quantize on the MPC is what makes them so good for hip hop and house tracks. it has a certain feel to it, not to mention rock solid timing, and i doubt if it's possible to achieve the same in PT.

-KS

[gargoyle]

Burner has it.

What I do is zoom in on say 2 bars and move the grid frequency around, (quarter, sixteenth, etc. Hit quantize and watch them move. That way you know if your working to the correct grid size.

For some reason I always "Swing things after fixing timeing.

Sean

[saeblee]

I use midi everyday on PT and have no problems. Just to avoid the any bugs, I prefer to stay in Bars/Beats mode always while in midi. Also, make sure you don't use midi cables longer than 10 feet. This could add extra latency to the track. These were all remedies for me when I first started using PT. I've noticed odd quantizing results when I change to Minute/Second mode, but your case may be different. Also, the musician must choose the correct time signature.
Best wishes

[The Mighty Burner]

I forgot to mention a couple of other pointers.

Understanding "ticks" is only necessary if you want to use the "offset" functions to displace where the midi timing aligns in relation to the beat. This is useful if you want to create a rhythmic feel that is "on top of the beat" or slightly "behing the beat" to simulate the feeling of rushing or dragging the beat. This alters the feel in a different way than the "swing" function.

There are other functions which can alter the way quantizing works. The "Include Within", "Exclude Within", "Strength", and "Randomize parameters" will essentially comprise a sort of "sensitivity" control which determines which midi notes to quantize. These parameters work on a percentage. For example, if you select "10%" for "include within", only midi data that falls within 10% of a grid boundary will be quantized. Check out your PT manual for detailed descriptions of how these functions work.

If you want to be sure that quantize is working correctly as a basic funcion, use only the start point quantize function and do not use any of these additional functions...just set them all to 100% or uncheck them (which ever is relevant), and select Bars/Beats as the grid mode (select an appropriate subdivision for the style of music, i.e. sixteenth notes for funk, or eighth notes for pop music).

Also, remember that quantizing MIDI data is a permanent edit to a MIDI track. Before quantizing, copy the data onto another playlist on the track so you always have a copy of the original MIDI data.

Good Luck,