Did I Give Eleven Rack Enough of A Chance?

[TieDyedDevil]

Hi Tom,

I'd have to agree, provisionally, with X-Mann. If you didn't like the ER before, you probably won't like it any better now

The only caveats would be:

1) You want to hear something different, or
2) something has changed in the way you monitor.

The latter applies more to live sound; I get the impression you're only looking for a recording solution. The point of interest is that any uneven response in your monitors will affect how you perceive the sound of the ER. This probably isn't an issue for most studio monitors worthy of the name. However, powered PA speakers can and do have quite a bit of variability across manufacturers and models. (And if you were trying to play the ER through a guitar speaker cab... well, that can be a problem.)

Assuming, though, that you were hearing the ER through decent studio monitors: you may be out of luck.

During your prior evaluation of the ER, did you experiment with (virtual) cabs, mics and mic placement? Those can offer good results in getting the sound you need.

Also, the True-Z is worth a try. This pays off big-time with single-coil pickups and clean sounds. Lower settings tame the resonant peak that can hurt your sound.

Did you check levels? This is especially important when using clean amps, as the relative lack of amp compression makes it much more likely that a too-high level setting somewhere in the ER will cause clipping. Watch the meters. Keep them about half-way for normal playing.

Finally, I'm a bit wary of your description of a "digital edge". Usually the "sounds digital" complaints come from folks who don't like what they hear, notice that there's a processor in the box, and conclude that the fault is somewhere in the digital processing.

IME, digital systems doesn't have "a sound". There are plenty of other ways to explain sonic shortcomings that apply regardless of the underlying technology. Once you get a grip on what it is that you're really hearing, you're a step closer to knowing how to correct the issue. Issues such as clipping and poor EQ are readily correctable using the tools at hand.

One issue, "internal aliasing", is symptomatic of poor algorithms or underpowered hardware. There's nothing you can do about that. I've played modelers having this problem, which is more prevalent as the amount of modeled distortion increases. I don't hear this on the ER.

The one thing that you may like better about the ER with ERXP is the addition of speaker breakup. Chris posted (as a sticky) a really nice article explaining how this works. To my ears, for the kinds of sounds I model, the effect is to get rid of the slight harshness that can accompany breakup of the clean to slightly-dirty amp models. Before the speaker breakup emulation, I had dealt with this by using darker mics off-axis.

[Tom Hartman]

Hey thanks for all the input.

Well one thing has changed. And that is, at the time, I was mainly using a Custom Shop Strat that had CS69 pickups on it. These are SUPER GLASSY pickups, the kind you hear on all those light rhythm parts that are through a chorus....or think Jimi Hendrix LITTLE WING. This guitar sounds glassy even through a real tube amp, you have to dial down the treble a bit. I finally got rid of it, and I actually like the Mexican Strat I have (with normal Strat pickups on it) better. I use it, and a PRS now.

I do only recording, no live work. So this is straight into a Duet right now. I suppose my dealer would allow me a trial again with one, in fact I'm sure he would. There just doesn't seem to be many options. I have a Marshall here and a Blackface 60s Fender, so I do have amps, but we all know you can't be using those at 10 PM with kids in the house. So a rack mount unit that would handle this stuff would be a great help.

Gonna go listen to more ELEVEN clips

Thanks again
Tom

[Larue]

Hey Tom, I was in your situation, too. I didn't initially bond with the 11R and sold it, but I'm back again with a new one, and this time I'm happy. I, too, felt it was a little bright and sometimes harsh my first go-round, but I do think this is somewhat pickup specific. I was mostly playing a Tele that was pretty glassy sounding, too.

When I was without the 11R I kept missing it. I loved the integration with Pro Tools and the easy control GUI, and got frustrated with plugin amp sim latency. It was fine if I was just sketching out a song and laying down a couple of initial tracks, but if I got into a heavy mix with lots of plugins, or lots of layering of guitars, it just became too much.

So after trying everything I came back. (And yes I tried the Axe-Fx.)

I haven't gotten the Expansion Pack yet. I'm still re-familiarizing myself with the amps that are in the original incarnation of the 11R. I'm happy because the integration is so easy and doesn't slow me down. I also convinced my friend to get an 11R so we can collaborate remotely and work out song ideas long distance.

The 11R is also just fun. That may sound simple, but at the moment, I need a little fun.

Who knows, maybe I'll come up with some 11R keeper tracks that I love. But I also have the option to reamp, which sold it for me.

[Chad Pippin]

I had my first 11R for about three weeks then returned it. I was frustated. I kept thinking.....there must be a way I can make this thing work. I was hearing excellent clips on line all the time. Finally, after picking up my second one, things just clicked and I haven't stopped using it since. My amp sits in the corner collecting dust.

[Bubblegum]

@Tom. I don't use any of the metal sounds either. The closest I get to that is the plexi model.

Here's a tip if you do try out another 11rack, especially useful if you have a strat:

Try turning the true Z control to the lowest setting (or experiment with somewhere in the middle). What this seems to do is result in slightly less gain and less "trebly" sounding, it gives a rounder, more vintage vibe. That may get you closer to what you're aiming for.

I got the 11 rack for convenience, expecting it to just cover me for scratch demos where I could replace the emulated sounds with a real amp later, but I haven't used my real amps since I got it.

If you want to hear any of those sounds, listen to the music player in the sidebar of my blog.
http://www.boyatheart.com

I have real faith in the 11 rack now. It's an absolute lifesaver.

[adamqlw]

To this, I would say 2 things:

Letter From Home
Classical Gas

Never been happier with my clean tone.

Edit:

3 things, apparently!
Sally's Song

[udamann88]

Just for the record......I want this to work for you.....This should work for you........& this is an amazing tool that deserves a 2nd chance.....

There are also soooo many great clips in every possible style & tone.......

[Idisagree]

All I can say is ill be damned if the digi custom clean doesn't sound f'ing phenomenal! Perfect with both of my humbucker equipped guitars and my strat, it pulls off a beautiful, shiny 80's clean tone and it can also pull off a fat bluesy clean, and I don't even change the EQ! Just a brilliant amp model. Imo of course....



T

[Vercingetorix]

Originally Posted by Idisagree

All I can say is ill be damned if the digi custom clean doesn't sound f'ing phenomenal! Perfect with both of my humbucker equipped guitars and my strat, it pulls off a beautiful, shiny 80's clean tone and it can also pull off a fat bluesy clean, and I don't even change the EQ! Just a brilliant amp model. Imo of course....

+1. So it's not just your opinion .

That's the amp model I was referring to earlier. It completed the array of sounds that I needed. The Bogners, FX and the JC 120 cab were all icing on the cake.

[Chris Townsend]

Awesome to hear you guys are digging the Custom Clean model, although I'm not sure if you are referring to the Modern Clean or the Vintage Clean.

Anyhow, I think there's one other new thing in the Expansion Pack that will appeal to people looking for moderately clean/slightly dirty tones, which is the addition of speaker breakup. The new speaker breakup can smooth out some of the harshness when the power tubes are slightly clipping.

More info on speaker breakup can be found here:
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=297417