Expand tracks - Not working with correct meta-data

[Frank Kruse]

Hi,

I´m trying to use expand tracks. I have a mono guide from an OMF export (referenced OMF to preserve AVID meta-data). I loaded the original tracks (40 tracks of a PT music-session).

In the project-browser all the files (avid and original PT) show up with identical original time-stamp. Because PT does not write any meta-data but a time-stamp PT can not relink the guide to it´s own original tracks (wich is a joke of it´s own).
So what I did was to create a self-generated sound roll number and injected those into both the PT originals and the AVID media. But still PT will not match-find those tracks when right-clicking on a clip.

Is there ANY info ANYWHERE about what fields of the meta-data are used to match-find audio? I thought it was sound-roll and original-timestamp. But this doesn´t seem to be true.

The strange thing is:

After having in injected a fake "sound roll number" into the original PT BWAVs using soundminer, PT will match-find the original tracks. So when I drag one of the tracks of the 40-track-originals to the timeline I can match-find the other 39 tracks.

But the strange thing is that the mono-guides from the AVID that contain the identical TC-info AND sound-roll info (that I hand typed into the project browser) the files are not found by PT.

Thanks,

frank.

[espron]

I totally agree that the information from digi concering the "expand to new tracks" feature leaves a lot to be desired...

Here is what I found out: Protools will match the tracks if all the files has an identical "Bext"-string in the BWF header (BWF metadata). Examples of bext-strings are dTRACKx=X, dTAPE=X, dCHANNELX=X, and so on. So, for a feature I worked on recently, I used a piece of software to embed this bext-string into all the files, and based on the dTAPE name and the start TC, Protools would match the tracks.

I guess you could use this this to embed the info into the BWF header of all the files, both the original files referenced to the OMF and your original BWF files.
I have also tried to enter this information directly in the workspace, but have not gotten it to work.

Also, I think that you need to use AAF with referenced media for it to work directly from the Avid.

I have done some research on this topic recently, so feel free to contact me by email, if you have any specific questions.

All the best

Espen

[Ray JB]

Hey Frank

As Espron says, try subliminating them. The other option is to use remetacator to recursively stamp the required BEXT strings into the BWAV files to try and force the match. I've had problems re-linking to files generated in earier pre-PT7 ProTools versions.

The expand tracks function does not work properly as you guys have alluded to ...... Even files with all the appropriate metadata criteria will expand in fairly un-useable fashions.

Time for a fix please. It's an advertised part of PT 7.3 that is flawed.

Ray

[Frank Kruse]

Thank you guys. I have already thought about sibliminator and I talked to Justin but unfortunately it only works on BWAVs. In my case the mono guides are AIFFs because the AVIDs were set to AIFFs. Sibliminator only works on BWAVs. This is the reason why I used soundminer instead because it works on both.

But it seems like Sibliminator doesn some other additional trick that I haven´t found yet.

Unfortunately PT´s browser on allow me to change the sound-roll info all other fields seem to be locked. But I´ll do some testing today.

Needless to say that with about 1.5TB of production sound I´m lost even if I find out what data will work when I enter it by hand. I need to find some kind of batch-process.

Soundminer however can batch-inject all sorts of iXML and BEXT data very easily so I´m going to try to enter some more matching fields.

Ironically in my case the only files that PT does not relink are the original PT files. All other Cantar and Sound Devices recordings work fine.

Lesson to be learned: Avoid PT for recording in complex workflows at all costs!!! It´s not prepared for modern meta-data logistics.

I hope digi can chime in on this one.

Thank you everyone. I´ll see how far I can get with your tips and come back.

Frank.

[Frank Kruse]

, I used a piece of software to embed this bext-string into all the files, and based on the dTAPE name and the start TC, Protools would match the tracks.

This is what I don´t understand. I have injected an identical dTAPE tag to all the files using soundminer. They show up fine in PT´s browser so the info is definitely read by PT. The files do have identical TC but still won´t link under "Match". However what DOES work is that the 40 original track now match and can be found by PT. What does not is that the mono mixdown doesn match with the 40 tracks although containing the same info AND tc.


What I don´t understand is if PT needs identical track-info what do I enter for the track-names to match a mono-mixdown avid media-file with the original 40-track-recordings from ProTools? Do I have to enter individual tracknamens for each one of the 40 tracks?!

Frank.

[The Cargo Cult]

I had some of these issues trying to make a simple demo of this process.

PT seems to have a couple of places in which it stores timecode.
I was finding that after sibliminating, PT seemed to change it's mind about the TC of a file. to 01:00:00:00
but remetacator was reporting the correct original TC as expected.
I'd repeat the whole thing from scratch and get the correct TC. really strange.

my very simple demo also failed to give any results for 'expand to tracks'.

Frank, do your 'processed' files actually spot to the same location?

justin

[Frank Kruse]

I had some of these issues trying to make a simple demo of this process.

PT seems to have a couple of places in which it stores timecode.
I was finding that after sibliminating, PT seemed to change it's mind about the TC of a file. to 01:00:00:00
but remetacator was reporting the correct original TC as expected.
I'd repeat the whole thing from scratch and get the correct TC. really strange.

my very simple demo also failed to give any results for 'expand to tracks'.

Frank, do your 'processed' files actually spot to the same location?

justin

Hey Justin,

I´ll verify the TC when I´m in the studio. I have to finish my tax declaration first (wich can be almost as frustrating as this issue I´m having) ;-)

Will report back later,

Frank.

[espron]

This may be of interest:

The strangest thing happened to me today : Opened OMF from Avid with referenced media (BWF), then imported all original production audio from Cantar. Nothing matched. Then I used Titan to autoconform the project using an EDL, and imported the OMF tracks into the session created by Titan - Voila! - everything matched!

Seems inconsistent, huh?


Espen

[Frank Kruse]

This may be of interest:

The strangest thing happened to me today : Opened OMF from Avid with referenced media (BWF), then imported all original production audio from Cantar. Nothing matched. Then I used Titan to autoconform the project using an EDL, and imported the OMF tracks into the session created by Titan - Voila! - everything matched!

Seems inconsistent, huh?


Espen

Yes, seems weird. What AVID-version did you use? I guess the whole feature isn´t fully working. Nice idea but still not very flexible when things need to be hand-controlled. At the moment it´s just like an on/off-switch. It either works or not. The user doesn´t have an option to error-check or batch fill in missing data in the workspace.

I hope Digi still looks into this feature as work-in-progress.

The field-recorder manual says that files have to match in TC-in and TC-out info. A BWAV doesn´t even carry a TC-out info it´s only one timestamp (samples after midnight). It´s very difficult for the user to find errors if something doesn´t work.

frank.

[zoundsabar]

It may be that people are having a problem with match track because the sound files to be matched are not imported into the session before doing the match. We have used TITAN and the EDL to perform the import of all the files referenced by the OMF, and then use match track to actually create sync tracks for all channels. Obviously the file import step can be done by hand, too. There may well be other issues people are having, but the posting by espron reminded me of this.