Pan Depth/Law questions

[wwittman]

Originally Posted by audiolex1

Here is an ever better article.

https://www.harmonycentral.com/artic...ing-laws-r501/

that essentially say the same thing.

If you're jumping or exporting from one DAW to another and expect your mix balance to be the same, then pan law matters.

and if you're mixing by moving things around with panning changing and passing through the center, then it matters

with fixed stereo positioning it just does not.

so playing with it in your DAW settings isn't going to make a difference on a mix you're starting from scratch.
what it WILL do is simply to change your balances when you first make the pan law change.

it's mostly irrelevant.

[audiolex1]

Originally Posted by wwittman

that essentially say the same thing.

If you're jumping or exporting from one DAW to another and expect your mix balance to be the same, then pan law matters.

and if you're mixing by moving things around with panning changing and passing through the center, then it matters

with fixed stereo positioning it just does not.

so playing with it in your DAW settings isn't going to make a difference on a mix you're starting from scratch.
what it WILL do is simply to change your balances when you first make the pan law change.

it's mostly irrelevant.

[midnightrambler]

“ Mostly irrelevant” - I’m not sure that’s quite true. I hate the *feel* of a pan law of 2.5dB, as in when you’re judging where to place something in space. It’s like the sound barely moves and then it’s suddenly at the side. It reminds me of the panning sliders on my old Fostex 4 track. With a setting like 4.5 (or if you’re really whacky like me, 6) you get a real sense of the sound being thrown around, of it actually *moving* - it -*feels* different, in this case more like an SSL E-series pan knob. (This is regardless of whether the pans are being automated or not, I’m talking about how you decide “where” something is in the balance.)

It’s a small thing I know, but I think these things matter. I was so happy when this feature was first introduced.

[albee1952]

Okay, here's my take as a simple audio guy(no science, just my ears). It relates to how things sit in the middle, and when a stereo mix gets summed to mono(not by the engineer, but by the playback method, which we have little control over). This is why I suggest listening to the options, AND checking in mono(sorry I forgot to add that earlier).

[daeron80]

It sure makes a difference if you have to mix for the possibility that some people will hear it in stereo and others in mono.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by daeron80

It sure makes a difference if you have to mix for the possibility that some people will hear it in stereo and others in mono.

People sometimes say to me "oh mono's not relevant anymore", forgetting about all those single "smart" speakers that thousands of people have...

[wwittman]

But again, once you assign something to the center you balance it based in that level (whether it’s 3 down or 6 down relative to assigned to a side)
So mono compatibility isn’t dependent on pan law either.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by wwittman

But again, once you assign something to the center you balance it based in that level (whether it’s 3 down or 6 down relative to assigned to a side)
So mono compatibility isn’t dependent on pan law either.

Not true. A mix balanced in mono with pan law at 6dB vs the same balance with pan law at 2.5dB will not sound the same in stereo.

[Rich Breen]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

Not true. A mix balanced in mono with pan law at 6dB vs the same balance with pan law at 2.5dB will not sound the same in stereo.

Only if you're not mixing with your ears. WW's right - pan law has zero to do with mono compatibility - it only has to do with where you would put the faders to balance the mix in the first place and your preference for how the pan pot "feels" in the mix. Of course, if you change the pan law *after* the mix is finished, well...you've changed the mix.

Take the simplest case: If you have a 0 dBu tone, fader at 0 and centered and your pan law is 0 and that sounds correctly 'balanced' to you against the material in the sides, if you change the pan law to -6, the level of that centered tone will drop to -6dBu, so in order to sound correctly balanced you'll turn that fader up 6: end result is that the output will be the *SAME* in both mixes and of course the mono sum of the two mixes will be identical.

Pan law matters to the process of mixing and if you're moving stuff around actively during the mix - it's a preference, but in and of itself will not affect mono compatibility.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by Rich Breen

Only if you're not mixing with your ears. WW's right - pan law has zero to do with mono compatibility - it only has to do with where you would put the faders to balance the mix in the first place and your preference for how the pan pot "feels" in the mix. Of course, if you change the pan law *after* the mix is finished, well...you've changed the mix.

Take the simplest case: If you have a 0 dBu tone, fader at 0 and centered and your pan law is 0 and that sounds correctly 'balanced' to you against the material in the sides, if you change the pan law to -6, the level of that centered tone will drop to -6dBu, so in order to sound correctly balanced you'll turn that fader up 6: end result is that the output will be the *SAME* in both mixes and of course the mono sum of the two mixes will be identical.

Pan law matters to the process of mixing and if you're moving stuff around actively during the mix - it's a preference, but in and of itself will not affect mono compatibility.

Yes, this is all true, but the *stereo* versions of each won’t be perceived the same. Eg Something panned hard right with a 6dB pan *has* to sound louder than the same thing panned with 2.5dB pan, once you’ve adjusted the level so that they’re the same in mono. I’ll probably have to do a demo to prove my point as I’m a bit drunk and probably not making much sense.