New Licensing

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Actually Agile is exactly how the music industry worked back in the '60s.

I can imagine Berry Gordy would make a particularly effective scrum master.

[Nate Hoffman]

I have been lurking since day one and have read almost all of the posts here, eagerly awaiting clarification from Avid. I'm a one-man post sound facility and I make my living using Pro Tools. I am a reluctant Adobe CC subscriber because my wife uses their photo editing software and I need the latest versions of Premiere and Audition to stay fully compatible with my clients that have switched to Premiere for editing. I hate paying a monthly subscription fee and I don't respect Adobe as a company any more because of it. I remember thinking to myself what a nightmare it would be if Avid were to switch to a subscription model as well. As much as I don't like constantly paying for software, if I'm honest with myself I realize that this is the software I use to make money. Can I afford $600/year to keep up-to-date? Yes. Do I need tech support and cloud collaboration? No. I remember calling Digidesign tech support on behalf of a studio I worked for many years ago. I ended up wasting a huge amount of time and never actually getting through. I never need tech support myself, but that experience has given me the impression that it would be useless even if I did seek it out. I would be thrilled if Avid were to offer a lower cost subscription that didn't include tech support or cloud collaboration. If that were the case, I might even stay calm if I found out that you can't jump in and out of subscriptions WUP style.

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by Nate Hoffman

I have been lurking since day one and have read almost all of the posts here, eagerly awaiting clarification from Avid. I'm a one-man post sound facility and I make my living using Pro Tools. I am a reluctant Adobe CC subscriber because my wife uses their photo editing software and I need the latest versions of Premiere and Audition to stay fully compatible with my clients that have switched to Premiere for editing. I hate paying a monthly subscription fee and I don't respect Adobe as a company any more because of it. I remember thinking to myself what a nightmare it would be if Avid were to switch to a subscription model as well. As much as I don't like constantly paying for software, if I'm honest with myself I realize that this is the software I use to make money. Can I afford $600/year to keep up-to-date? Yes. Do I need tech support and cloud collaboration? No. I remember calling Digidesign tech support on behalf of a studio I worked for many years ago. I ended up wasting a huge amount of time and never actually getting through. I never need tech support myself, but that experience has given me the impression that it would be useless even if I did seek it out. I would be thrilled if Avid were to offer a lower cost subscription that didn't include tech support or cloud collaboration. If that were the case, I might even stay calm if I found out that you can't jump in and out of subscriptions WUP style.

Thanks Nate - the WUP approach to lapsed plans does appear to be most users' best hope of buying-in to the new plans. In the event that Avid were to allow lapsed plans for perpetual licences to be reactivated, we might expect this to be disincentivised as this would in effect be little different to current one-off upgrades (notwithstanding the apparent accounting issue).

In the spirit of feedback to Avid (if they're still listening), I feel that the incentive should be something positive e.g. missing out on Everywhere, Marketplace and support ... but if they were to price 'vanilla' continuous upgrades at $199 and lapsed upgrades at $299, would we be satisfied? How about $50 less to drop support?

This thread is benefiting from more 'lurker' opinions so (you know who you are!), please post!

[Rob0214]

So, I've kind of been following this thread, but might have missed some things.

I'm still on PT 8 (and Snow Leopard). I had planned to upgrade to Mavericks/PT 11 sometime this month anyway. I was kind of turned off by the rapid 9->10->11 release cycle, plus I know from past experience that PT isn't stable for 6 months to a year after release.

So, needless to say, I was kind of pleased by this announcements.

As for being worried about paid subscription being the future, well, I can always switch to another DAW. I'm pretty computer savvy, I can pick up workflows pretty easily.

Anyway, I was wondering:
1) why does it take so long for them to update the store? Seems like a simple web site update.
2) i have an 003 (which had PT 7), and I got an Mbox 2 (to do the upgrade to 8 since it costs about $25 more to get it over a standard PT 8 upgrade). Can I upgrade the 003? Do I need to upgrade both? Should I bother? I can't imagine resale on either items are that great nowadays.

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by Rob0214

So, I've kind of been following this thread, but might have missed some things.



I'm still on PT 8 (and Snow Leopard). I had planned to upgrade to Mavericks/PT 11 sometime this month anyway. I was kind of turned off by the rapid 9->10->11 release cycle, plus I know from past experience that PT isn't stable for 6 months to a year after release.



So, needless to say, I was kind of pleased by this announcements.



As for being worried about paid subscription being the future, well, I can always switch to another DAW. I'm pretty computer savvy, I can pick up workflows pretty easily.



Anyway, I was wondering:

1) why does it take so long for them to update the store? Seems like a simple web site update.

2) i have an 003 (which had PT 7), and I got an Mbox 2 (to do the upgrade to 8 since it costs about $25 more to get it over a standard PT 8 upgrade). Can I upgrade the 003? Do I need to upgrade both? Should I bother? I can't imagine resale on either items are that great nowadays.

Thanks Rob0214 - I can't comment on your questions but would agree that, in the short term for users not yet on PT11, the upgrade is a good deal and, unless you wanted to join protesters on the barricades, almost a no-brainer.

Maybe Avid have determined that after a possibly slow take-up of of the 64-bit version (for all the reasons already discussed). there may be more Pro Tools users not on Pt11 than on it. Consequently, this group constitute their best opportunity for short-term cash ... so they structure a model which targets this group (even playing on the evidence that this group doesn't always upgrade to the latest version and may even stick on a version 2, 3 or even 4 versions back (previously paid higher upgrade fees and could still make perpetual licences at full cost work for them)?

More lurkers?

[Buccanears]

I'm a lurker! If they take the WUP approach with lapsed subscriptions, I will be happy. Support wise, I'm upside down on the nether regions of the planet and we don't have a local support rep. We do have support from closer regions, but I would have thought that a continent of our size would reinstate a position to keep us Ozzies and our Kiwi mates happy. Australia is on the back foot in terms of internet speeds, (read 2 x tin cans and a piece of string) thanks to our illustrious leaders, so not sure if Everywhere is going to function correctly until tested. Not that that happy for users that are already at 11 (one louder).

[noiseboyuk]

Originally Posted by 21 Junipers

I too was VERY against software rental. But some time ago I needed some web development tools. Adobe had them as a part of CC. I signed up for a month. Got what I needed and stopped. My next need presented itself and a few months later I subscribed. All driven by paying work. With regard to them "not having an equivalent to the support subs model" I'm not sure (partly Avid's fault). With CC I can text or call during business hours for my $49.95 subscription. And now I get the Touch Apps as a part of the deal. But yes I'd still rather 'own'. And Avid is not Adobe (size or otherwise).

My wife subscribes to MS Office. I think it's 5 licenses for family members for whatever fee. I remember her saying that it was more cost effective over 5 years than owning. I subscribe to MS Developer Network. Gives me more tools in a cost effective manner than purchasing all of them. .

I think it's significant that you a) needed other software in their bundle and b) are able to just drop in and out as you need. Sure, under those circumstances it can be cost-effective.

But for one piece of software, for permanent use? Nah. Unlike Adobe or Microsoft, who both offer large suites of products which can be attractive for those who require large suites of products (especially that rare group that require suites of products only occasionally), Avid are only offering MC or PT (wonder if the bundle is coming though). If you need one product for sole day-to-day use, rental is poor value from a customer's perspective.

Incidentally, away from this particular topic, I see some online resellers are not only selling the new vanilla PT upgrades, but are offering discounts in-cart (and from elsewhere in this thread we know that includes the support subs). Too much to hope that they'd offer the CPTK / HD upgrade similarly discounted? I've only ever seen Avid sell these direct.

[NipL]

Originally Posted by Righty27

... but if they were to price 'vanilla' continuous upgrades at $199 and lapsed upgrades at $299, would we be satisfied?

That would be the WUP kind of thing and I would have had no objections to that.

A fair balance between Avid actually provide something new and attractive for years to come, making userbase stay on support plan - or stay out for some years until they do provide something useful, and re-enter.

Current suggested plan - stay on or buy new that is totally arrogant.

As for support and collaboration stuff I noticed that every day duc.avid.com in not available at least an hour a day. So site cannot handle current userbase even.

What about collaboration stuff - is that the kind of accessibility they are thinking of?

And avid.force.com was gone all sunday(limit exceeded) - is that also part of this new level of service?

What is Avid capable of, really, more than fancy boardroom decisions?
A reality check for these people on many levels seems to be needed.

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by noiseboyuk

It's an interesting comparison. Our experiences are rather different. I updated Audition to CS5.5, but when they went subs only it was the definitive end of the road for me with that path. I'll stick using 1.5 and 5.5. Ultimately I don't need any new features to do what I need the product to do. Yes, I need those tools, but no I don't really need further updates for them. And I can't see that changing in the medium or even long term - only when 5.5 doesn't work with my next version of Windows I guess. My other tools can be more up to date, and probably over time I'll use Audition less and less as new functionality in other tools become part of my workflow.

I don't do rental. It's directly analogous to why you'd want to own a house rather than rent it - it's just throwing money away otherwise.

Adobe don't have an equivalent to the support subs model. If I could pay $149 for a year's support and upgrades which have permanent licenses, I might well be tempted. But I wouldn't buy either a full new license at high cost or rent, other alternatives are more appealing and cost-effective. Maybe it works in the markets for other products in their range, but I'm an ex-Adobe customer as a result of their marketing changes.

Same situation here with AA and CS5.5. I would dearly love the new tools in Audition CC but not at a monthly fee. If one takes a close look at what Adobe has in Audition CC you get the same thing or damn close to it with Izotope Rx and that's a pay one time and you own it; no monthly rental. And it's cheaper as well.

And I won't even get into Photoshop going CC

[Jeff D.]

I still don't understand how these rental/subscription plans are good for the customer. The traditional model of:

Company offers feature customers want --> customers offer money to get feature

Is the most efficient method. It keeps the company on track to produce what customers want, and it keeps users from paying for features that they don't want (or paying for no new features, which seems likely in the current scenario).

When Waves came out with WUP it broke this model. WUP demanded money even when there were no new features. They so offended me that I found alternatives for all of their products. Even though they subsequently revised the WUP policy to cap upgrades at $200, I am happy with the other less greedy competitors, and a bad taste towards Waves still remains so I have not gone back.

Why would AVID risk customer base alienation over this greed ploy? Just come out with the damn track freeze feature and reap the rewards! Most would upgrade to PT12 tomorrow to get this one feature, and not one customer would be alienated.