To Carbon or Not to Carbon... That Is The Question...

[Sparky1]

Hello everyone

As i get more involved in the mixing world - my trusty ol' Late 2013 Macbook Pro is starting to struggle a bit...

Since it was 10 years old I thought it was time to upgrade...

Purchased a new Mac Mini M2 knowing that not all of the software I am using would be compatible yet (or maybe never). The new system came with Ventura OS

What I didn't anticipate is that my Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 interface wouldn't work... at all...

The Focusrite website states they no longer support this interface... fair enough...

The Saffire MixControl software seems to load - but it doesn't open up because it can't see the Pro 40

A few folks on the inter-web have been able to connect old equipment to new with a series of adapters... tried this - and no luck...

So that leaves me with having to purchase a new interface.

I have considered the Avid Carbon in the past - but the price tag kinda slowed me down.

Now... my thoughts are just jumping on the Carbon train - thinking that the extra onboard processing would carry me forward for the next 10 years.

Does this seem like a reasonable position?

Thanks,

Sparky

[massivekerry]

I've been wholly blown away by the Carbon. While I still don't need the monitor control aspect, I have found the preamps and converters to be outstanding (to where I am not really using my fancy preamps - good mics help tho), and the "no-latency" tracking has been mind-blowing. I used to have a TDM system, but I had forgotten how tight things could be in the last 10 years. I expect I'll be keeping this new system for at least the next 10. You might need to experiment with and customize your I/O settings (as I did) depending on your monitoring and output routing, but that's just setting up a new essential part of a system.

[dominicperry]

The onboard processing of the Carbon is very limited. You should not think of it as a way to supplement the power of your computer. For any reasonable sized mixes, your CPU will still be doing all of the work. The DSP in Carbon is just for low-latency tracking. There's enough DSP for 20-30 tracks of EQ and compression if you are selective about which plugs you use. It's also pretty easy to max it out.

Dominic

[Sparky1]

Originally Posted by massivekerry

and the "no-latency" tracking has been mind-blowing.

This would be nice for sure...

Thanks,

Sparky

[Sparky1]

Originally Posted by dominicperry

The onboard processing of the Carbon is very limited. You should not think of it as a way to supplement the power of your computer. For any reasonable sized mixes, your CPU will still be doing all of the work. The DSP in Carbon is just for low-latency tracking. There's enough DSP for 20-30 tracks of EQ and compression if you are selective about which plugs you use. It's also pretty easy to max it out.

Dominic

Interesting...

You are correct in thinking I was hoping it would supplement my computer rig...

Decisions, decisions, decisions...

Thanks

Sparky

[Sparky1]

Originally Posted by dominicperry

The onboard processing of the Carbon is very limited. Dominic

Originally Posted by dominicperry

It's also pretty easy to max it out. Dominic

Would you buy it again - knowing this today?

Thanks,

Sparky

[massivekerry]

For me, I bought it knowing that I'd only be using the AAX-DSP on tracking. The days of off-board processing seem to be nearing an end (unless you're doing post/film mixing), and I've rarely had a need for it while making music. The CPUs now do their job pretty well, and if you look at how you work, where stress points seem to occur in a session, and how you can re-provision those resources in different ways, you'll probably be fine.

[dominicperry]

Originally Posted by Sparky1

Would you buy it again - know this today?

Thanks,

Sparky

Yes, I would buy one again, but with reservations. Not the problem above though.

1) AVB is a stupid way of connecting an audio interface.
a) Mac only.
b) expensive connectors (Sonnet connector is £150. Apple double-dongle is £80).
c) creates problems with Intel CPUs ramping
2) I hate fans. I really hate fans. This goes for any and all equipment. No remote output volume on the Carbon (yet), so you have to sit next to it (or have some convoluted monitoring arrangement).
3) If you want to use Carbon properly, you must use PT. Avid has a way of creating new bugs as they fix old ones. There's never a good version of PT anymore. The limitations about which version of MacOS and PT go together is made even more complex by adding the Carbon.
4) You have to keep paying support in the hope that a good version is round the corner.
5) The latency/offset/random position problem. I haven't had it myself and as a project studio owner, I'll work around them if I stumble across them. But if I was a pro studio owner, I'd be worried.
6) Carbon Pre is offensively priced, and doesn't have any additional DSP.
7) Only one guitar sim and no keyboard VIs in AAX-DSP but I haven't had a problem with instrument VIs and native latency through Carbon. I think they've actually got the output latency quite low over AVB.
8) Support on this forum from Avid went from quite regular and helpful to non-existant.

Good things:
1) Sounds great - on the way in and on the way out.
2) Low latency with ease - just pick some good AAX-DSP plugs for tracking. Be prepared to substitute your mix plugins with those plugs if you need to overdub later. Not a big deal once you realise how to do it. The native plugs which you mix with will be bypassed if there's no AAX-DSP version and you will want to stick a comp/EQ on the track to record.
3) Works nicely with M1 chips
4) Integration with PT is really tidy and easy compared to using UAD console.
5) Four headphone outputs. Genius. They're pretty good too.
6) Reasonable metering. 9 bar LEDs. Could be more, but good enough. I like a good meter.
7) Works with Townsend Sphere mics at low latency. Sorry, UA Sphere mics.
8) Product team did fix a problem with my RME ADI-2 Pro fs not connecting to the ADAT/SPDIF out of the Carbon. Much appreciated fix.

Dominic

[Sparky1]

Originally Posted by dominicperry

Yes, I would buy one again, but with reservations. Not the problem above though.

1) AVB is a stupid way of connecting an audio interface.
a) Mac only.
b) expensive connectors (Sonnet connector is £150. Apple double-dongle is £80).
c) creates problems with Intel CPUs ramping
2) I hate fans. I really hate fans. This goes for any and all equipment. No remote output volume on the Carbon (yet), so you have to sit next to it (or have some convoluted monitoring arrangement).
3) If you want to use Carbon properly, you must use PT. Avid has a way of creating new bugs as they fix old ones. There's never a good version of PT anymore. The limitations about which version of MacOS and PT go together is made even more complex by adding the Carbon.
4) You have to keep paying support in the hope that a good version is round the corner.
5) The latency/offset/random position problem. I haven't had it myself and as a project studio owner, I'll work around them if I stumble across them. But if I was a pro studio owner, I'd be worried.
6) Carbon Pre is offensively priced, and doesn't have any additional DSP.
7) Only one guitar sim and no keyboard VIs in AAX-DSP but I haven't had a problem with instrument VIs and native latency through Carbon. I think they've actually got the output latency quite low over AVB.
8) Support on this forum from Avid went from quite regular and helpful to non-existant.

Good things:
1) Sounds great - on the way in and on the way out.
2) Low latency with ease - just pick some good AAX-DSP plugs for tracking. Be prepared to substitute your mix plugins with those plugs if you need to overdub later. Not a big deal once you realise how to do it. The native plugs which you mix with will be bypassed if there's no AAX-DSP version and you will want to stick a comp/EQ on the track to record.
3) Works nicely with M1 chips
4) Integration with PT is really tidy and easy compared to using UAD console.
5) Four headphone outputs. Genius. They're pretty good too.
6) Reasonable metering. 9 bar LEDs. Could be more, but good enough. I like a good meter.
7) Works with Townsend Sphere mics at low latency. Sorry, UA Sphere mics.
8) Product team did fix a problem with my RME ADI-2 Pro fs not connecting to the ADAT/SPDIF out of the Carbon. Much appreciated fix.

Dominic

Thanks for the detailed answer Dominic… very much appreciated - this is a lot of the information I’m trying to sort out…

Sparky

[albee1952]

If you are mixing more than recording, then Carbon is maybe not worth the money If you do mostly mixing, you could buy a really good interface(maybe from RME) and have plenty left over for acoustic treatments, great plugins or a really good chair