Widening Plugins

[Nicolasixxx]

Do you guys prefer to use a widening plugin on the master bus to widen the whole mix or on a submix aux to widen specific elements in the mix (such as stereo electric guitars)?
I find putting a widener on the whole mix a bit scary.

And what widening plugin do you use? I use the Waves S1, but that's the only one I have. Anyone A/Bed the S1 against Duy wide?

[bassmac]

Waves PS22 is really great.

[Nicolasixxx]

It's funny, I didn't even know the PS22 is part of the bundle. Do you prefer it to the S1?
And I am curious to know how people are using the widening on their mixes.
I found this the other day:

Another interesting -and more practical - application is to create mixes with broad and deep soundstages - without the out-of-phase feeling that sometimes happens when whole mixes are enhanced. To do this you need an application with multiple stereo buses - like Sonic Foundry Vegas Pro. Set up two S1s in two different buses. For the first one, start with the default settings and change these settings as a starting point: Width - 1.10, Shuffling - 1.5, Rotation - full left, Asymmetry - 20. For the other S1, use the same settings but change the Rotation to full right and Asymmetry to -20. Now, for anything in your mix that’s more than 50% panned left, route it through the first bus. Route the “right” content through the second bus. Now adjust the Rotation and Asymmetry controls to taste. You will find that the mix takes on a very three-dimensional character, yet centered sounds are completely uneffected and sound “tight” and centered.

The S1 takes a little learning, but it is certainly worth it in the long run. It is a classic example of the programmer’s motto that “flexibility requires complexity.” It took me a while to master the S1, but my mixes benefit from it. Even on conventional mixes, a little stereo enhancement and positionalizing can create a sense of dramatic realism without any sense that the music has been "processed."

[Nicolasixxx]

It's funny, I didn't even know the PS22 is part of the bundle. Do you prefer it to the S1?
And I am curious to know how people are using the widening on their mixes.
I found this in an S1 review the other day:

"Another interesting -and more practical - application is to create mixes with broad and deep soundstages - without the out-of-phase feeling that sometimes happens when whole mixes are enhanced. To do this you need an application with multiple stereo buses - like Sonic Foundry Vegas Pro. Set up two S1s in two different buses. For the first one, start with the default settings and change these settings as a starting point: Width - 1.10, Shuffling - 1.5, Rotation - full left, Asymmetry - 20. For the other S1, use the same settings but change the Rotation to full right and Asymmetry to -20. Now, for anything in your mix that’s more than 50% panned left, route it through the first bus. Route the “right” content through the second bus. Now adjust the Rotation and Asymmetry controls to taste. You will find that the mix takes on a very three-dimensional character, yet centered sounds are completely uneffected and sound “tight” and centered."

[bassmac]

Here ya go: http://www.waves.com/htmls/prods/indi/ps22.html#

I like it for individual tracks, but I’m not really into widening the mix buss myself - sorry.

[Chris Lambrechts]

widening on the whole mix ????? oh well ... if you have to I guess ... just 'widen' with care and don't let you eye off your phase meter for a second when you do that .... oh, and press the mono switch from time to time too.

[Nicolasixxx]

Actually, I never use a widener on the whole mix, just specific elements that I want to really spread. That said, I remember Charles Dye saying that he routinely puts a Duy wide across the master. I am curious how many people are doing that. I have found that master widening negatively affects center panned elements.

Nic

[roberts]

Cuan Wider is good also You need to have old DSP farm 3D Spacializer is cool.