Trim plugin

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by domdompompom

I understand, however, my questions are if I trim should be the first plug in after I record an instrument and before I apply plugins. And if I should have my fader at unity gain. But, there is a general theme that my faders should be at -18, do I use trim to get my fader to -18? or play with the trim and track fader to get it to -18?

Please think about what is actually going on here with the analog input and digital signals post A/D conversion, and what you are asking.

Who is telling you to put what fader at -18? I hope you mean people are advising you to track with the *pre-fader* *meter* at around -18dBFS? And that level is set by a preamp mic gain knob (and selecting the right mic and placement, right preamp, maybe an attenuator... Or similar for whatever source you have), theat analog input level is not set by a Pro Tools track fader.

Folks advising you not to run things too hot might talk about leaving headroom like -18dbFS on an input track. They are saying that so you have headroom at the A/D converter so that the converter does not clip on transients. Just no need with modern 24 bit converters to run things hot, track with decent headroom. If you do not understand that, go grab a good book on audio engineering/signal processing and have a read.

All that discussions is about tracking/input converters and recording to tracks through an A/D. Not about mixing. Modern Pro Tools (Native or HDX, not old TDM) has a 64 bit floating point mixer, and 32/64 bit floating point plugin processing with AAX. You can't/wont clip that. Whatever you do with where you prefer to play with trim plugins and faders there is for cosmetics/UI reasons. Not anything fundamental to signal processing. You just have to arrange things not to clip at a physical output.

Plugins are pre-fader, so sure you could if so inclined stick a trim plugin on an input track and it could raise or lower lower the already converted digital level, but why the hell would you do that? While tracking you actually want the track meter (in pre-fader mode) to show you the actual dbFS coming out of the converter. That's one of the most fundamental things you should care about... and care about in the sense of being careful to have decent headroom and not to clip, not in an old style analog console sense of thinking you need to run it as hot as possible. Artificially lowering the level with a trim plugin is useless, if the signal has already clipped because it's too hot, digitally lowering an already clipped does nothing to help you, you still have a clipped/damaged recording.

One reason that some folks use trim plugins a lot may just be historical, going back to the days of Pro Tools HD/TDM and the 48 bit fixed mix bus and the need to be more careful not to clip in the mixer or TDM plugins. There is no need to worry about clipping in the mixer anymore, there may be UI/usability/personal workflow preference reasons however.

[chrismeraz]

Remember, plugins are pre-fader. So, if for some special reason you want to affect the level before it goes to a plug-in, then use the trim plug-in. If you do not have a special reason to do that, then don't worry about it and don't use it.

I use Trim on every single track to get levels near 0VU before I start mixing.

[midnightrambler]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

There is no need to worry about clipping in the mixer anymore

Weeeeeeell, yes, for the floating point mixer, but you can't say that's categorically true for all plug-ins that are getting a hot signal....can you?

I would still say that it's good practice to keep levels down, if only to keep your faders somewhere reasonably useable. Those Logic session exports I get that are all automatically normalised to 0dBFS drive me potty....

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

Weeeeeeell, yes, for the floating point mixer, but you can't say that's categorically true for all plug-ins that are getting a hot signal....can you?

I would still say that it's good practice to keep levels down, if only to keep your faders somewhere reasonably useable. Those Logic session exports I get that are all automatically normalised to 0dBFS drive me potty....

You cannot say anything is categorically true for any plugin since what they do/how they behave at different signal levels is entirely up to the developer. But on the other hand we have to stop talking about mixing and mix-levels like we are dealing with a limited old 48 bit TDM/DSP system.... just as people have to just get over wanting to track hot. Interesting kind of opposite direction things, but both caused by fundamental improvements in the underlaying technology.

[amathie]

I'm trying to find a good "Trim" plugin but I can't find one included with PT12HD.

Should there be one? If not, what's a good choice from 3rd parties?

Thanks

[jeff5x0]

Originally Posted by amathie

I'm trying to find a good "Trim" plugin but I can't find one included with PT12HD.

Should there be one? If not, what's a good choice from 3rd parties?

Thanks

Blue Cat audio has an excellent one that uses groups. Super handy. But your Pro Tools should have it. If you're trying to use it on a stereo track you have to select multi mono one. There is no stereo trim.

[amathie]

Thanks Jeff5x0
...found the Trim plugin under multi mono as you instructed. Very handy - thanks!

[cowrange]

There is also the handy one for free from DMG. It has some extra functions like hpf and m/s etc.
https://www.dmgaudio.com/products_trackcontrol.php


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[holler]

The faders are post-processing except for the Master Fader so a good idea is to use a trim-plugin or clip-gain to set your levels before adding plugins! In other words you may have snare peaking at 0 and you set your faders to -18 the signal going in to your first plug-in will still be at the original level of the snare!

[The Weed]

Or buss the audio to an Aux Track and put the plug-ins on the Aux and, if multiple Audio Tracks use the same plug-ins and settings of those plug-ins, buss them all to a common Aux Track. That's been best practice for PT since way back when.